Tuesday, April 22, 2014

The Ballad of Craven Cliven


"I abide by all of Nevada's state laws.  But I don't recognize the United States government as even existing."

Cliven Bundy
10 April 2014

He says this while waving an American flag. Genius. 

Cliven Bundy wants to be a GEN-YOU-INE folk hero - and by the looks of things - the silly bastard is well on his way to honest-to-goodness folk heroism, with the help of Fox Noise (Sean Hannity in particular) and hundreds of armed-to-the-teeth yahoos and half-witted "militia men" who cheerfully stepped forward this week and made my argument (once again) for stricter regulation of the firearms industry. You can always count on these assholes to cut off their noses to spite their bloated faces, but this week's spectacle in Nevada was something to behold indeed. When this is finally made into a movie, it will be the darkest of comedies.

The loony right wing loves to bitch and wail about the "undeserving poor" getting something for nothing. Why is it, then, that when it's the undeserving rich we're talking about, they're always so quick to come to the plutocracy's defense - and, oh brother, did they ever come! 

You see, Cliven Bundy is a very wealthy rancher. For twenty years he's been allowing his cattle to graze on government-owned land. TRANSLATION: Land owned by Weeda Peeple. This was something he was entitled to do. The problem was that for twenty years Cliven refused to pay the grazing fees involved - which by this month had exceeded one million dollars. When law enforcement officials came in to evict these poor animals, the militia-nuts came into the picture, vowing to protect Cliven's right to....whatever-the-hell they believe he has the right to do. Not surprisingly, they were never quite clear on that point. 

They set their scopes on the heads of officers who are sworn to uphold the law of the land. A lot of these assholes even had their wives and girlfriends on the scene, daring the lawmen to shoot back if they were fired upon first. The cops wisely backed off. It was a no-win situation. The Tea Party types are declaring what a grand and glorious victory this is over the big, bad gub'ment.  

That's right, folks, these fucking spineless cowards put their families in the cross-hairs. Isn't that a scream? They have declared themselves to be in armed revolt against your government. Remember how well that worked out in 1861? Back then it was the Democrats cheering on the rebels. This time it's the Republicans. Life is kinda funny that way, you know?

This is not a bold prediction on my part (in fact it's the easiest call I've ever maded in my life): This is going to end very badly. We're talkin' tragedy here. An extremely ominous precedent has been established in Nevada. Let me explain....

This week, the homicidal crazies in the so-called "militia movement" were given the biggest mega-dose of adrenaline they've ever received in their long and twisted history. This won't be the last time these nitwits "stand their ground" - count on it. They're just itching to do some killing, and on a massive and devastating scale. Gotta use them AK-47's fer somethin', Bubba! The NRA has been telling them for years that it is their duty to take on the government in a show of force - and these people are so gut-wrenchingly stupid that they really believe that they will be able to do just that; Their goal: Blow the bastards to kingdom come! That'll learn  'em!

Forget the military might of the federal government; there's the undeniable fact that even your below-average state National Guard worth its weight in dead rocks would easily be able to make rancid mincemeat out of any self-raised army of murderous and armed jackasses trying to show what manly men they are. They have proved to the world (but in reality only to themselves) that they are the omnipotent Angels of Death, marching onto glory in their stupid world of lethal make-believe. For over five years now this twisted view of reality has been reinforced by the right wing media's scream machine. Like Pavlov's dogs salivating at the bells of doom, the mantra has been drilled into their clueless heads by constant repetition and it's only made them crazier with the passing of each month:

"THERE'S AN EVIL, COMMIE NIGGER LIVING IN THE WHITE HOUSE! HE WANTS TO DESTROY THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE!  DEFEND YOUR WIFE 'N' CHILDREN! PASS THE LORD AND PRAISE THE AMMUNITION!"

The danger here is not merely the undeniable fact that these folks aren't very bright (that's a given) but that they're armed and - we can deny it no longer - obviously quite dangerous. If you're not seriously alarmed by what transpired this week in Nevada, you've got you've got your head in the sand - or quite possibly you're unfamiliar with the definition of the word, "treason".

I'll say it again: This is going to end very badly. I cannot emphasize that enough. Let's hear it for the National Rifle Association!

And while you're at it, fasten your seat-belts, kiddies!

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

SUGGESTED VIEWING:

Yesterday on the Daily Show, Jon Stewart put Cliven Bundy in his rightful place - with the type of brilliant satire that one has come to expect from his program:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/v4jh6e/apocalypse-cow?xrs=eml_tds_042214

 As scary as this is, it really is quite funny.

SUGGESTED READING: 

Suffer the Little Children
from "The Rant"
9 April 2013 

http://tomdegan.blogspot.com/2013/04/suffer-little-children.html

This little ditty I wrote a little over a year ago dealt with the tragedy of America's incurable appetite for gun violence. Get used to living in a nation in ruins.

Let me end this little tirade of mine on a softer note:

SUGGESTED LISTENING:

I Only Have Eyes For You
by Art Garfunkel

This song came out around 1976 as I recall. I think it was my first real appreciation of the standards of my parents' youth. My friend, Gerry O'Brien, turned me on to this recording. All these decades later, I still think of her whenever I hear it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ikfwXOtqE

You are here so am I
Maybe millions of people go by
But they all disappear from view
And I only have eyes for you....


Now, wasn't that nice?

145 Comments:

At 9:21 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Gotta love a guy who claims not to recognize the federal government and then runs around waving an American Flag.

 
At 9:46 PM, Anonymous John said...

The land his heard was grazing was good old American soil,. Free for 100's of years. Then the grazing TAX was imposed, he said no. Good for Him.

 
At 12:31 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

The land was public land to be sure, which means he had to PAY THE PUBLIC to use it for profit. Can I go on HIS property graze MY cattle without HIS permission? I think we both know the answer to that one.
HE BROKE THE LAW.
He can suffer the consequenses like anyopne else would have to. And BTW, using their women and children as human shields (At least threatening to) shows just what kinds of COWARDLY losers these people REALLY are.

 
At 2:12 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What would noted Prof. Phillip Agre
say?

 
At 6:54 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous, he would say you need to stop WHINING.

 
At 8:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So should we disarm the BLM too?

 
At 11:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

THEY BROKE THE LAW!!

The Internal Revenue Service handed out $2.8 million in bonuses to employees with disciplinary issues — including more than $1 million to employees who didn’t pay their federal taxes, a watchdog report says.

The report by the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration said 1,146 IRS employees received bonuses within a year of substantiated federal tax compliance problems.

The bonuses weren’t just monetary. Employees with tax problems received a total of 10,582 hours of paid time off — valued at about $250,000 — and 69 received permanent raises through a step increase, the report said. The report looked at bonuses in 2011 and 2012.

Employees’ tax problems included “willful understatement of tax liabilities over multiple tax years, late payment of tax liabilities, and underreporting of income,” the report said.

What would noted Prof Phillip Agre say?

 
At 11:47 AM, Blogger Yellowstone said...

What's next . . . a standoff with the IRS?

Can't wait to read this next chapter in this new lunatic USA.

 
At 12:26 PM, Anonymous TallBoy said...

once again, you choose to divide the argument down party lines... what could be more polarizing? the BLM has been on a decades long crusade to tax out family ranchers. just look at how bundy is THE LAST rancher in clark county. all other ranching families either died off, gave up due to regulation or the inability to make ends meet because of a lack of profit (there were 53 other ranchers out there in decades past). which brings me to my next point, from what i understand his family has ranched there since 1870's... they have made the roads (on the property in dispute), mended the fences, run the water pipes and put in the irrigation and cisterns. none of this was done by the BLM or the feds, now or ever. so what kind of land management are these fees going toward? now, this is desert scrub brush we are talking about here, a landscaped thats pretty inhospitable for man or beast. its not some oasis, its hardscrabble land that breeds similar people. meanwhile factory farming, with feedlot cowboys, antibiotic/steroid laced food, and generally inhumane conditions continues to grow while family ranchers who graze their cattle in open spaces are driven into extinction... all to the chorus of people of you're ilk shouting "obey the law"... well, some laws need to be broken in order to shine a light on a broken system...and we should applaud his efforts, they are truly american. now, ever hear of UN Agenda 21? if not look into it...and watch the famous educator, johjn taylor gatto's, the ultimate history lesson video, on youtube. its well worth the time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQiW_l848t8

 
At 3:32 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Gotta love Anonymous. When faced with FACTS that don't support his agenda, he just changes the subject to something completely unrelated. Look at it this way. Pot USED to be legal. It was made ILLEGAL by William Randolph Hearstto protect his WOOD pulp buisiness from the more efficient HEMP pulp industry. It got ridiculous in the 70's under NIxon where a joint meant prison time. Carter decriminalized so Reagan passed a law requiring a TAX STAMP, that way if you bouoght the stamps you got busted for distribution, and if you didn't it was a federal tax rap.
Now, if anyone decides to grow pot anyway, how do you think the government treats THEM?
You don't fight a bad law with guns, you fight a bad law by WORKING TO GET THE LAWS CHANGED. It can be done because look at all the states legalizing pot. He's got enough money to run for federal office, but instead he STEALS and then whines when he gets caught. He is a CRIMINAL, and not only that a COWARD Because he'll put his women and children in front as a human sheild.

 
At 3:53 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Tallboy, it is not often around here that an alternative opinion is so well stated in such lucid and literate post. Stick around, I want to here what you have to say on other topics in politics.

 
At 3:55 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Ha Ha, Hear!

 
At 4:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mozart,

You need to stop WHINING.


 
At 4:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's the difference between Bundy and Occupy Wall Street?

 
At 5:19 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous, remember when conservatives were the "LAW and order" party? NOw you defend criminals.

And I'm not whining, I'm LAUGHING.

 
At 6:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mozart,

You need to stop WHINING.

And to know the difference between a question and defending someone.

What's the difference between Bill Ayers and Bundy?

 
At 7:06 PM, Anonymous Jay said...

Tom,

What is nauseating astonishing is that those who would defend Bundy are the first to whine about others not "paying their own way." We're actually having a debate in this country regarding children performing some work for a free or reduced school lunch. Yet these dimwits flock like flies to a deadbeat who has ignore 20 years of court action.

My question is: What the hell took the government so long?!? Seize the goddamn property. Put a lien on it and garnish the wages. Period!

What never ceases to astonish me is all the bullshit conservatives try to cram into "freedom." This wasn't about "freedom" or "rights," this was about a senior citizen scoff law.

I too wish there had been an "event" or larger altercation. I wouldn't have cared if women or children got shot either. Hey--I'm pretty fucking numb after Sandy Hook!! So if some asshole would-be minute man wants to drag his kids and hide behind them like a coward--so be it!

The "Right," its leaders, its punditry, and candidates have been pushing secession and/or open revolt for too long. While some Conservatives may ignore this or not support these calls; they sure the fuck ain't disavowing these individuals or groups. So let's do it!! I am all for letting law enforcement, national guard, whoever waste these faux-freedom patridiots.

There's a great monologue in the movie "Fight Club" where Brad Pitt's character reminds his soldiers of "Operation Mayhem" that they are special, unique, or even loved and that odds are God doesn't even know you exist.

It's something these "free-dumb" buffoons could use a lesson on. Call it a "Waco" event--whatever. But there are too many morons on YouTube threatening to kill people over gun control. (Think about that one!)

Sure, there will be an investigation, congressional hearing, a handful of resignations or firings--but y'know what? Inside of 5 weeks no one will give a fuck a bunch of gun-happy rednecks got blown the fuck up!

And the next some scumbag scofflaw doesn't pay a bill--Mom & Dad might not be so keen to bring the kids to the rally.

Jay

http://loraxlog.blogspot.com

 
At 7:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


"What is nauseating astonishing is that those who would defend Bundy are the first to whine about others not "paying their own way."

Really Jay? What post on this thread of Tom's are you looking at? Or are you reading another blog? You just say something and let hang out there in the hope that it becomes reality. 17 posts so far and I can't find one that address what you claim.
I think this makes you a TROLL!

More attempts to deflect by the left when things dont turn out the way they planned.

Jay, you need to stop WHINING

 
At 8:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BTW Jay, waiting for you to disavowal the actions of Bill Ayers, the lies of Obama, and the violence from the Occupy band of brothers.

bet you won't, cause you see nothing wrong with them

 
At 8:30 PM, Blogger Amanda Sowards said...

There's a reason why I refuse to allow people to comment anonymously on my site. Cowards don't get a seat at my table. Man up, speak up, show yourself or get the hell out.

 
At 9:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amanda Sowards
You need to stop your WHINING.

 
At 10:09 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

I think people that post anonymously suck the big one.

 
At 10:42 PM, Anonymous Prof. Phillip Agre said...

Mozart says you need to stop WHINING.

 
At 12:14 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous has clearly gone round the bend. He's careened off into third grade again. He has no facts so he turnes into a snotty little kid. How sad.

On a funnier note, John Stewart is rippiing Fox Sean Hannity a new one over this the last couple days. If you haven't been watching you are letting the best things in life pass you by.

 
At 10:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mozart says you need to stop WHINING.

 
At 10:28 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Very perplexing case and I’m not sure why Bundy is enjoying as much “conservative” support as he is. I believe it is due to general frustration with Washington and a “trigger finger” to get angry without critically examining the issue (no pun intended). I would caution folks like Jay, though, not to assume that there is that much general conservative support. Sure, you see Hannity barking like normal without thinking and a few other folks that are willing to show their face on TV to get air time, but amongst the generally conservative people I know, not a lot of support for this guy. I’d say far more ambivalence and disinterest than anything. I liken him to a Fred Phelps of sorts – if this is the image a person has of conservatives, it is very much a skewed caricature. I am not standing at the ready to run off and join a militia at the drop of a hat. Some people are just “likes to fight guy” and they are coming out of the woodwork because they see a good fight a brewin’ – and it’s not even their fight.

He appears to me to feel entitle to some sort of 19th century frontier lifestyle that really doesn’t exist any longer. So he’s frustrated by gov’t regulation by BLM? Well, join the club – who isn’t frustrated by government overstepping in some area on some level. But, we don’t just decide Washington has no sovereignty and refuse to obey, refuse to pay taxes. And, this over land area that we (US) originally purchased it legally. And the US admitted it into the union legally as part of the UNITED STATES – not just a loose group of individual states. As for his “ancestral” rights, that has the appearance of desperation and outright deception – yet to be seen. Sounds fishy to me. I am no believer in squatter’s rights. And it appears the Bundys may not have been squatting there for as long as he’d have us believe.

Having said that, I think the government could have used “economic sanctions” as it were vs. the “stand-off” techniques. You’ll have to admit, agencies like BLM, ATF, FBI, etc. are also full of “likes to fight guys” as well…

 
At 10:29 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If I had a grow operation on federal land would these militia dudes strap on their pistolas and help me defend myself against the D.E.A.? Bet not.

 
At 10:58 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

We can all read the truth Agre had to say about the radical Right.

But for this post the question is:

What would Hero of the Militia Right Cliven "I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing" Bundy say?

“They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.” - Cliven “I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing” Bundy

Chuckie, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and many others have all described government subsidies for the poor as a "plantation" oppressing minorities.

Yeah, this is what to expect from the "no compromise" and "not racist" ideologues who want a Right Wing dictatorship.

 
At 11:20 AM, Blogger charles moore said...

Tom, one of your best rants ever.

 
At 3:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have to assume you're on the public dole in order to have so much time to devote to the crafty twisting of words,facts, and truth. This would explain why you're so defensive of all that leans "left".
As a lifelong Democrat (and slowly becoming not proud of it) I fail to see where this is a politically dividing issue. EVERYONE should be on this guys side, at least long enough to have a qualified understanding of the law and facts.
Sure, he's not a Yale or Harvard graduate, most ranchers aren't, but man, do you sound jealous because he's getting more attention than you.
If I may ask a few questions...
Why do you suppose it took 20 years for the authorities to take action? Perhaps the PR move of spending millions to collect 1 million in grazing fees is appealing to you?
What are your thoughts that "Weeda People" paid $966,000 to a bordering state rancher to scoop up this guys cattle...only to then have to release them back to him because the BLM couldn't find anyone to take stolen property?
Do you align yourself so solidly with Harry Reid that you fail to mention his involvement ...even once?
Is "rant" an acronym for Romantically Accepted Neglected Truth?

 
At 7:33 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

I can not get too worked up about someone stealing grass from the government because it grows back very fast.
I am more concerned about someone spending 14 years in jail for having two joints of grass in their pocket.

I think Cliven should stick to talking about cattle, here is what he said about black people:

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.

“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

 
At 8:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whats the difference between President Obama not obeying the laws of the ACA and Bundy? They both are breaking the law.

The Congressional Research Service (CRS) has just released a memo listing deadlines that Obamacare imposed on the Obama administration—or, if you prefer, that the Obama administration imposed on itself through Obamacare—and reporting whether the administration has met them or not. To date, it appears that the administration has missed 25 deadlines that it was required, as a matter of law—as a matter of the president’s signature law—to meet.

 
At 10:53 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Yeah, Anonymous! What's the difference? Racist Bundy and his fellow militia nuts training their weapons on Americans enforcing the law that Bundy defied, and Obama rescheduling healthcare deadlines is practically the same thing, right? LOL!

Oh, the "tyranny of the evil black man" in the White House. That drives racist assholes up the wall.







 
At 11:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

DAVE DUBYA,


Mozart and Phillip Agre say you need to stop WHINING.

 
At 3:14 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

It must suck to be Anonymous, who finds himself on the wrong side of still another debate. Very sad.

 
At 11:42 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Mozart,

Show some understanding. Poor Anonymous Chuckie's disoriented and off balance now that his new idol has been exposed as just another racist militia nut.

But don't worry, Anonymous Chuckie is very happy with his fellow racists and other dupes in his RRBC.

His hate shall go on.

 
At 12:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dave, Mozart

Save your whining for after the NOV elections.

 
At 12:43 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Save your whining for after the NOV elections.

"Whining". Is that what you call stating the fact your idol has been exposed as just another racist militia nut?

LOL!

Vote GOP. Bring on the next Right Wing financial collapse and trumped up wars.

They do what they do.

 
At 1:02 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Scapegoating. The Radical Right Bubble Cult (RRBC) has it all figured out. I mean besides Jews, er, liberals, hate America and are to blame for everything bad.

1. Poor people are poor because they're lazy.

2. Minorities tend to be poor, therefore they must be lazy.

3. Government assistance stops people from working harder and encourages laziness.

4. Minorities stay poor because of government assistance, but vote for more government.

And now Bundy and our own Chuckie have added their latest propaganda point of hate.

5, Minorities are slaves of the government “plantation”, and might be better off as harder-working real slaves.

As they WHINE about the “persecution” of their hero, the poor, poor victim, and racist militia nut Bundy.

“Boo hoo”, go the RRBC crybabies. Rich white guys are ALWAYS the victims. Why doesn't somebody stand up for them, for pity’s sake?

Good news! That is the only mission and purpose of their RRBC.

 
At 5:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sigh, more whining from the radical, extreme lefties, if you think it's bad now wait until after the elections in NOV.

 
At 6:52 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Bundy and Hannity are the ones whining. Just 'cause Chuckie wants to project all his and their whining shows how they are.

Chicken Chuckie is a crybaby. I don't know why, his heroes are winning and giving him new hope for change. LOL!

if you think it's bad now wait until after the elections in NOV.

Amen. We hear ya, Chuckie.

We ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Obama only brought us a corporatist health care plan and continued Bush's police state. He barely resisted the Right’s agenda. War criminals, torturers, and Wall Street swindlers had nothing to fear and walk free.

And we’re not even done paying for the Bush wars and Great Bush Recession.

Vote GOP to bring on the next wars and financial collapse. Take us back to October 2008! Better yet, take us back to 1808 where the brown people know who’s in charge. End minimum pay. Take them back to where they’ll be “free” from government safety nets that make them lazy. Let them work for free as slaves again under good old conservative white southerners. For only rich southern white men know what’s best for all Americans, don’t they? Ain’t that right, all you Bundy fans?

Fear not, all you racist gun-totin’ proud patriots who deny the authority of the federal government and US Constitution, for you want your country back. And you have someone willing to take it. The anti-democracy, vote suppressing, bought and paid for far Right is winning. Half the democrats are on the take from the same corporate “free speech” as Republicans.

Thanks to a corporate Supreme Court, we truly have the “best congress money can buy” more than ever before. Despite the fact that significantly more Americans voted for Democratic representation, the US Congress is controlled by Republicans. The dictatorship by the minority party will soon claim the country.

They are winning their war on democracy. The Fourth Reich rises to “take our country back”.

This is why the ranks of the poor swell as our middle class and country are going down. They are very efficient Brown Shirts working for their authoritarian masters and Party.

But don’t worry. Like all fascists, they have scapegoats. The far Right will tell us the commie Jews..I mean the “commie liberals” are to blame for it all.

Isn’t that right, Chuckie?

That’s right. Vote GOP and let them fix things real good like they did in 2008, and 1929.

And don’t you “real Americans” fret none. We can blame lazy blacks and commie liberals when it all goes to hell again.

“Yee hawww!” cheer all the racists and brainwashed dolts shilling for corporatocracy and neo-feudalism. Rule by divine right of wealth shall prevail.

If you think it's bad now wait until after the elections in NOV.

Thanks, Chuckie. You got that right. Extremely far “Right”.


 
At 9:49 PM, Anonymous Chuckie said...

"They are very efficient Brown Shirts working for their authoritarian masters and Party."

Like the added IRS employees to enforce the Liberal Fascist's ACA law?

 
At 10:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

More whining and name calling, sigh. So sad so very sad. Cant imagine What it will be like after the NV election for the for extreme lefties?
Already throwing the "Black Guy" under the bus, how very racist of them.

 
At 10:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cook County prosecutors raised the specter of the Boston Marathon bombings in asking for hefty sentences for three alleged anarchists convicted of making crude Molotov cocktails in the lead-up to the 2012 NATO summit, but a judge ended up imposing more modest prison terms Friday that could result in their release in less than two years.

Judge Thaddeus Wilson took the middle ground, sentencing the so-called NATO 3 to between 5 and 8 years in prison, well below the 14 years sought by prosecutors but more than the time served wanted by the defense.

How much time do you think Bundy should get? "HE BROKE THE LAW" whined Mozart.

 
At 11:06 AM, Blogger Rain Trueax said...

Allowing someone to post as anonymous makes this a discussion impossible to follow as anonymous could be five people or one. I know from experience that you lose comments when you make readers have an ID to comment, but at least what you are left with are those proud of their stand and willing to be identified by it.

LA Times had a good discussion going on this which clearly showed that it's what was said by Tom for why so many are supporting this millionaire rancher. It's resentment over perceived wrongs most of which they got told by some right wing pundit with no facts behind them. The ones who showed up to support Bundy are wanting to shoot somebody and start this idea of a revolution they are being fed where they need their AK-47s or whatever the heck those rifles are called now.

The truth of grazing fees on public lands is they were here long before Bundy got into the Posse Commitatus movement. Those fees are way below what people pay for private land. He was asked to pay $1.35 per month per AUM (hasn't changed in years and years). So he had maybe 900 head cow/calf pairs on 150 square miles of public lands. Leaving him free to use his own land for whatever crop he wanted. Those leases are not granted based on competition but basically inherited and only lost through misuse.

Twenty years ago he got convinced he didn't have to pay as some are convinced they don't have to pay income tax (one American movie star went to prison for that mistake).

To graze our 40 head on a neighboring tract of 50 acres, we pay $5 a head per month. And those leasing government lands only pay it when the cattle are on the land while to hold onto our leased land (competition determines what we pay and always others want more grass), we pay it year round even when we have to pull the cattle off for a while. Obviously those 50 acres have more grass than probably his sage land did but then again it depends on how hard he grazed that land. Some ranchers have overgrazed and end up with the grass gone and dirt. He doubtless didn't want anybody dictating to him on that either.

People like Bundy are the last rancher in an area because they bought out everybody else, and his cheating on grazing fees could well be how he did that. Free grass makes for a lot more profit than having to use land you bought and pay taxes on.

 
At 3:03 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous has really lost the cheese from his Rotz now that Bundy has been exposed. Sad really, but then he's been on the wrong side of every discussion here. Hexk, Anonymous is now whining about his whining. Pathetic.
The bottomline is that Bundy is a thief, a racist and a COWARD.

 
At 4:10 PM, Anonymous John Doe said...

Ok, Rain Trueax You want a name, here you go.
John Doe has asked,

What's the difference between Bundy and Occupy Wall Street?

What's the difference between Bill Ayers and Bundy?

Cook County prosecutors raised the specter of the Boston Marathon bombings in asking for hefty sentences for three alleged anarchists convicted of making crude Molotov cocktails in the lead-up to the 2012 NATO summit, but a judge ended up imposing more modest prison terms Friday that could result in their release in less than two years.

Judge Thaddeus Wilson took the middle ground, sentencing the so-called NATO 3 to between 5 and 8 years in prison, well below the 14 years sought by prosecutors but more than the time served wanted by the defense.

How much time do you think Bundy should get? "HE BROKE THE LAW" whined Mozart, just as the three alleged anarchists convicted of making crude Molotov cocktails did.

Let's have a discussion about these questions which are related to the subject that Tom has posted. So far no one has been willing to even acknowledge these questions. My guess is because they are viewed as loaded questions. Which leads to another question, why are they considered loaded? Because DAVE DUBYA, MOZART AND JAY don't FEEL they need or have to or is it because they know by discussing them, it will weaken their position as open minded liberals?

I don't know the answer Rain Trueax, you would have to ask them. But there has been plenty of attempts to have an open discussion, that has be stopped by Mozart and Dave Dubya.
Now sit back and watch the venom flow now.

 
At 4:48 PM, Anonymous Chuckie said...

Colorado is by nearly all quantifiable measures a reliably blue state: Barack Obama won Colorado twice, easily.

A new Quinnipiac University poll finds the U.S. Senate race between GOP challenger Gardner and incumbent Democrat Mark Udall in a virtually tie (as does a new PPP poll), with the latter leading 45 percent to 44 percent.

A win in Colorado for the GOP is an upset. And if Gardner pulls it off, it’ll have a lot to do with Obamacare. As the Quinnipiac poll tells us, ACA is underwater by a 59-37 percent margin in Colorado. And for those voters most concerned about healthcare, Udall is behind significantly (57-36). Though, Udall has plenty of other problems to contend with.

A little Koch brothers money to buy some TV time with video of the man child Obama talking about how you can keep your doctor and plan and save $2,500 should wrap it up for the GOP! Thanks Obama! Thanks ACA which is 100% owned by the lying DemocRATS!

 
At 5:10 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Speaking of “A little Koch brothers money to buy some TV time”, we all remember their dishonest ad with Julie Boonstra .

Dexter cancer patient who called health care 'unaffordable' will save more than $1K

“I personally do not believe that,” Boonstra said

Of course not, Bubble Cult beliefs trump facts.

Too bad Julie jumped on the radical Right’s Hate Wagon full of liars before getting the facts in the first place.

As we know the RRBC openly tolerates and encourages lies like these. Do you think they remember "Death panels" was the "lie of the year" before Obama's "keep your doctor" claim? Everyone I know kept their doctors. Still no sign of those death panels.

But after all, we need to let billionaires run the country, don't we? For some strange reason the RRBC wants everything the greediest billionaires want.

Billionaires like the "Honest" Kochs, Donald "Birther" Trump, and Donald "not a racist" Sterling are better than the rest of us, and are more morally fit to rule.

It's best we all do as they say and let them have our government. Well, they already have the best congress, senate and White House money can buy, don't they?

So let's let them keep it.

Isn't that right, Chuckie Doe?

 
At 6:40 PM, Anonymous Chuckie said...

Robert A. Heinlein:

"‘Bread and Circuses’ is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader—the barbarians enter Rome.”

 
At 8:19 PM, Blogger Rain Trueax said...

The left wing is quite capable of going wacko ie the letter bomber, animal liberation whatevers and PETA extreme elements. I hear it on left wing sites also-- must have revolution to restore... what? Nobody seems to have that answer.

Does it matter that the left can be nuts and therefore justify the defense of Bundy who was basically just stealing?

I am not someone who listens to right wing pundits more than now and again to see what's up but Glenn Beck made sense yesterday on his radio show, when he said let someone talk long enough and you see who they are.

I heard it from a rightie extremist where he went off on the real reason to defend Bundy is because Obama plans to take over the nation by subterfuge starting with the national guard. I nearly replied, as in what right wing blog is your source, and then thought this is nuts and I should not dignify it. Someone else came in and with one word did a good job-- dementia.

To me, anyone who defends revolution to get their way is wrong-- right or left. Put the work into getting elected those who support your agenda. If they disappoint you, then work for someone else next time. We do still have a government of those who can vote to change things. Even the Supreme Court can be changed if they become seditious-- impeach. But it's easier to talk about hopelessness or violent solutions that only end up bombing a federal building and killing babies in day care.

Listen to what someone says and keep listening. Don't excuse it. Beck was right. Nuttiness eventually will show itself. I don't defend either side when they chose to use violent means as they did in Nevada. I also don't defend those who won't work for a better system-- whatever they believe. Some just want to whine and not do that work or research.

 
At 10:36 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

John Doe,

Not sure I'm tracking on the significance of your question on "how much time should Bundy get?". I don't want him to do any time. If he owes the money, I'd suggest we start with paying what he owes.

I don't know 100% for sure he broke the law - I could be proven to wrong on him - but the facts aren't stacking up in his favor as facts come out. My main issue is with the knee-jerk neocons rushing to his side with weapons. Those people scare me - and I'm for strong 2nd ammendment rights. They rightly bring ridicule on themselves and do a disservice to those who want to continue to fight against government over-reach in a legitimate way.

 
At 12:42 AM, Anonymous John Doe said...

Rainey,

Thank you for staying on topic, see there can be discussion here, but it has to be done with the insane background noise Kochs as droned by Dave Dubya. As has been said before, he doesn't want a true exchange of ideas as it detracts from his appointed goal of hate and fear mongering and race baiting and the radical liberal agenda. I agree, given time the craziness will come out, but until then, he's a citizen with the same Constitutionally protected rights as you and I have.

Harley,

The only place that Bundy has been tried and found guilty of crimes against the State is on Tom's blog and in the media.. Want support of that claim, check out Mozart screaming that HE (Bundy) BROKE THE LAW!!

MOZART, HE HASN'T BEEN CHARGED TRIED OR CONVICTED! ISN'T THAT REQUIRED BEFORE YOU CAN CLAIM HE BROKE THE LAW?

Read Tom's posting, is Bundy ever presumed innocent or has he been charged, tried and convicted by those on the left? Bundy is guilty without a trial in the minds of the left because he has challenged the govt! How dare he do that! That is my point, since the left has found him guilty, as the Occupy Wall Street terrorist have been found in a court of law, then what should his punishment be?

What, no one wants to talk about that, gee why would that be?
Should Bundy be given the same access to our institutions of higher learning like Bill Ayers has been? After all they both challenged the govt. They both have been found guilty. Or at least AYERS was in a court of law. Heck no, Bundy should not be allowed the same privileges as Bill Ayers has been offered because Bundy is dangerous, but Ayers is not. Right?

Condoleezza Rice is being denied by the left the very things that Bill Ayers is lauded with. Yet what crime has Rice been charged with, tried for and convicted of in our legal system? Unlike Ayers, NONE. But her civil rights, her right to liberty her right to the pursuit of happiness would be denied as Bundy's would be with out due course in the legal system by LIBERAL STATIST. Why, because the left can not allow a difference of opinion from theirs to be expressed. Because to speak our against the agenda of the left opens you to being found guilty and punished by the left without the benefit of a trial.

Then in the height of stupidity, Dubya claims the he only wants to preserve our democracy. Talk about lying through ones teeth! Does our democracy state that all are innocent until proven guilty? Except Bundy?

Harley and Rainey, I would gladly join in discussion with either of you, for you both do so in an effort to uncover the truth, not in an game of one of I gotcha and Ad Hominen's.


Conservatively speaking,
I remain your truly,

John Doe


 
At 7:24 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

John Doe...

So by YOUR logic I could go out and kill someone, and until someone formally charges me I have not broken any laws!

Wow.

The ways that conservatives can twist and spin facts to defend a thief and a racist (not to mention hypocrite) never cease to amaze me.

 
At 9:30 AM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

After reading about this Bundy story from several sources I believe Conservatives picked the wrong person and the wrong issue to champion.

The rates for grazing are about 1.50 a head per month on federal land and these rates are heavily subsidized. The government spends about 8.00 to collect that 1.50 in monitoring, repair and renovating the range.

Bundy had to of signed contracts to get his cattle assess to hundreds of square miles of federal range and he simple reneged on the contract. If he did this to a fellow rancher would he still be supported?

I also believe if this incident happened during Bush's term we would of never heard of Bundy.

 
At 10:51 AM, Anonymous John Doe said...

I'm not supporting or condemning Bundy. I'm only asking he be treated as innocent until proven guilty. And if he is proven guilty, he be treated by the left the same way as they have treated the law breakers of Occupy Wall Street and Bill Ayers.

Mozart, your lack of understanding of our legal system is scary.
Until proven guilty in a court of law, you would be presumed innocent of committing, to use your example, murder. Being accused/charged of a crime is not proving you committed the crime. Being arrested is not proof of guilt. Being served is not proof if guilt. Being put into jail before your trial is not proof of guilt.
It's called due process, something that is given to all, even to capture Islamic terrorist who the Obama DOJ wanted to try in NYC. That is not a spin that is our law, our Constitution explains this (if you can get a copy of it, read it).

If there is any spin it's from the left, who if they disagree with a persons actions or positions, find them guilty in the courts of public opinion instead of the courts of law.

 
At 11:16 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Dave Dubya. As has been said before, he doesn't want a true exchange of ideas as it detracts from his appointed goal of hate and fear mongering and race baiting and the radical liberal agenda.

Dementia. Thanks for the apt term, Rain.

Bundy is guilty without a trial in the minds of the left because he has challenged the govt!

More dementia.. Bundy is clearly guilty of defying the law and not paying grazing fees. These are called facts.

Occupy Wall Street terrorist

More dementia. Note it’s “terrorism” when the Left protests the abuses of power by the Wall Street government complex. Bundy is still a hero to the radical Right.

But her civil rights, her right to liberty her right to the pursuit of happiness would be denied as Bundy's

More dementia.

Condoleezza Rice is being denied nothing. Note how the “victims” on the Right are fabulously wealthy and immune from the law. And they’re still welcome to speak in the corporate media.

She’s lucky Obama is a moral coward, and that she and her gang have not been charged and convicted of lying to congress and war crimes.

Why, because the left cannot allow a difference of opinion from theirs to be expressed. Because to speak our against the agenda of the left opens you to being found guilty and punished by the left without the benefit of a trial.

And more of the paranoid “victim” claptrap. Chuckie Doe’s opinions are freely stated here. His lies, ignorance and hate will be called out.

same way as they have treated the law breakers of Occupy Wall Street

False equivalence, unless Bundy has been pepper-sprayed in the face for his challenging the government. One more time. Only rich white guys are the real victims of oppression, right, Chuckie?

Dubya claims the he only wants to preserve our democracy. Talk about lying through ones teeth!

Note the classic projection here. Chuckie Doe has declared me guilty of lies without offering a bit of proof. This proves Chuckie to be both a liar and a hypocrite.

How “right” of him. How far and radical Right of him.

 
At 2:16 PM, Anonymous John Doe said...

Wow, what can one say, more radical leftist totalitarianism from Dave.

 
At 3:13 PM, Anonymous Ron Baldwin said...

John Doe at 10:51 AM criticized Mozart’s “lack of understanding of our legal system” and urged no action or decision until Bundy is “proven guilty in a court of law.”

I have a simple question for Mr. Doe. How many court cases have already found that Bundy owes the $1 million in grazing fees that he refuses to pay because the Federal Government doesn’t exist?

 
At 3:16 PM, Anonymous John Doe said...

"Bundy is clearly guilty of defying the law and not paying grazing fees."
Dave, provide the trial and case number to support your conviction of guilt. Not saying Bundy is or isn't guilty, just want proof to support your claim. When was he tried? But more importantly Dave is your use of the word "clearly". Would you want a juror deciding your guilt or innocence to read or hear that you are "clearly" guilty of defying the law? I don't think so.

On the other side of the coin, I can provide case numbers, and results of trials for those arrested and convicted members of Occupy Wall Street, and liberal terrorist Bill Ayers, and right wing terrorist Timothy McVeigh.

The following articles and institutions of higher learning have attempted to or have denied Ms. Rice from speaking and earning an income. Does Bill Ayers get the same treatment? Does self admitted liar Bill Clinton get treated the same way?

'War Criminal' Condoleezza Rice To Give Commencement ...
Huffington Post

Rutgers Faculty Try to Bar Condoleezza Rice...
www.truthrevolt.org

White liberals protest Condi Rice at University of Minnesota ... dailycaller.com

Capitol Hill cronyism targets Rice
Clarence Page | December 2, 2012

Other persons liberals have attempted to silence, who have been attacked or accused of a crime because they disagree with liberals, all the while still claiming they want to save our democracy.

Ann Coulter
Star Parker
Michelle Malkin
Sarah Palin
Kay Bailey Hutchison
Jeane Kirkpatrick
Cathy McMorris Rodgers
Michele Bachmann
Carrie Prejean
Sen. Kelly Ayotte
Wisconsin Lt. Governor Rebecca Kleefisch

But let a conservative say anything negative about, for example Sandra Fluke, we know the liberal out rage that would follow.
Sure you should be critical of what a person says, but I don't believe you can convict them of a crime unless you have been selected as a part of their jury. Never forget,
we are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Never forget that being pepper sprayed is not cause for breaking the law, when in the first place the reason you were sprayed was because you WERE ALREADY breaking the law.
Remember civil disobedience is not the exclusive purvey of liberals.

Until charged, tried and convicted per the rules of our Constitution and the laws of our courts is anyone guilty?

 
At 3:42 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Until charged, tried and convicted per the rules of our Constitution and the laws of our courts is anyone guilty?

Not in the technical legal sense. Get real. What you mean is a narrow definition of guilt by verdict. Or are you telling us the Newtown shooter wasn’t guilty because he didn’t get charged, tried and convicted?

Real guilt is different. This depends solely on whether they committed the crime or not. Guilty people get away with crimes all the time, as are innocent ones falsely convicted. Adjudication by a guilty verdict is only the legal outcome, not necessarily the fact of actual commission of a crime. Sometime guilt exists only in the eyes of the law.

just want proof to support your claim.

And here we go again with the famous double standards of the RRBC. The Radical Right Bubble Cult reeks of hypocrisy.

YOU call me a liar without evidence. I state the facts and you demand proof of what is ON THE PUBLIC RECORD!

He either did, or did not, pay the lawful fees. He clearly did not. Period.

 
At 4:08 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

John Doe, you missed the point. I said IF I DID KILL SOMEONE, would I not BE a murderer regardless of the legal system?

Of course I would, the public just wouldn't know about it yet.

Bundy, BY HIS OWN ADMISSION has done things that are AGAINST THE LAW. Therefore, he BROKE THE LAW.

How hard is that for you to comprehend? Are you REALLY defending this racist clown?

 
At 10:28 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Conservatives never seem to have a clear view of reality, for John to compare Clinton's lying about an extra marital affair vs Condi Rice's involvement in war crimes is ludicrous.
The Bush admin is responsible for killing over one million innocent Iraqis, that's a big fucking deal!

If Iraq were a greater power than us, Condi Rise and a hundred other Neocons would have gotten a death sentence and it would of been justified.

But Conservatives like John can never fathom wrong doing by his side ever.

 
At 11:53 PM, Anonymous John Doe said...

"Not in the technical legal sense. Get real. What you mean is a narrow definition of guilt by verdict."

No that's not what I'm telling that's what our democratic Constitution is telling you. If you were charged with a crime would you not want " a narrow definition of guilt by verdict"? The Constitution you took an oath to obey, protect and uphold when you joined the Armed Services of our Country.

You seem to have forgotten the term SUSPECT. A person is a SUSPECT until tried in a court of law and found guilty after all their Constitutional rights have been proved. It's the way we work in real ville. Being a suspect does not make your guilty or even mean you have been charge for a crime.

Now since the shooter took his own life there can be no trial. There are eye witness reports of what was seen and heard, but the death of the SUSPECT prevents the trial. Which is probably why he took his life. You can't try a dead person. Unless you are trying Ronald Reagan.

Did Ted Kennedy have a trial after a young girl drown in the back seat of the car he was driving? Is he guilty of murdering the woman? Would you agree with those that say he committed murder? Of course not, because a grand jury found there was no crime committed, even thought there was a very dead body in the car he drove off a bridge.

So in the narrowest sense, Kennedy was not guilty because he was not charged, tried and found guilty. Same has to be said about Bundy. As much as you may find his beliefs distasteful, has he had a trial with a jury of his peers? NO HE HASN'T, so he can there for not be guilty of a crime.

Great thing that Constitution of ours, protects the poor desert rancher just as much as it does the rich politician from MA.

James Hansen , You charge Ms. Rice with war crimes, when was she charged, what court was she charged in? We have Clinton's confession to lying under oath don't we. That Arkansas removed him from the Bar, not because of an extramarital affair, but for lying. Do we have a confession from MS. Rice for committing "war crimes"? Was she removed from the BAR in any state? No, but radical liberals have done their best to prevent her from speaking.

Here is the problem liberals have, they want conservatives tried in the courts of public opinion, since they cant get enough evidence to try them in the courts of law. Because there is none. At the same time they want to give their guys a pass for in he words of Mozart, BREAKING THE LAW!

But you see Mozart, if you said you DID KILL SOMEONE, you would still be entitled to a trial. Not saying Bundy is right or wrong. However even if he has said he has broken the law, he still has a right to a trial and his day in court. Just as you would in your example. Even if he has been convicted of breaking the law before, that does not mean he has lost his Constitutional rights to a trial on this action. Unless of course you are secrete conservative and believe in the three strikes and your out concept.

 
At 4:02 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Typical conservative, can't stay on subject.
BUNDY, BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, COMITTED A CRIME. He HAS been convicted several times in courts of law, but he "doesn't recognize" the authority of the court. How convenient! ANd conservatives, who would have a person HUNG under a WHITE GOP president, defend lawbreakers if they defy a Black Democrat. Typically hypocritical of the conservatives.

 
At 9:03 AM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

A war of unprovoked aggression was inflicted on Iraq for years and nobody is to blame?
We are known around the world as the nation that tortures prisoners of war, but if the Bush Chaney admin had nothing to do with it, how did it happen then?

Maybe all the problems that arose from 2000 to 2008 is the fault of Ted Kennedy LOL.

 
At 11:15 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Despite Chuckie Doe's hysteria, nobody here is demanding Bundy be lynched. We all support his right to legal due process.

Would Chuckie say Hitler wasn't guilty of wrongdoing too? I suppose so if he also believes a corporation is a person entitled to human rights, and that the corporate media is "liberal media".

This “debate” on a narrow legal definition of guilt is confirmation of yet another of Agre’s assessments of radical Right conservatism’s destruction of language.

American Heritage
1.
a. Responsible for a reprehensible act; culpable.
b. Law Found to have violated a criminal law by a jury or judge.
c. Deserving blame, as for an error


We can spell it out, but that doesn't mean it will sink in.

 
At 11:26 AM, Anonymous John Doe said...

"WHITE GOP president, defend lawbreakers if they defy a Black Democrat. Typically hypocritical"

Ok Mozart, you started this! As is typical, when all else fails you, you play the race card. Do you see Rain, it's impossible to have a discussion or debate or even an exchange of ideas with Mozart.

Racist Clippers Owner Donald Sterling Is a WHITE Democrat!

Black on white crime happens more often than the reverse.

Knock game victims are mainly white, players are black.

You want me to continue Mozart? Is that how you want to take this discussion from Tom's original non racial post into one that fits your race based agenda? Have you no shame, have you no ideas that can stand and succeed in an open debate on there own merit? All evidence point to the answer of NO, you do not.

James Hansen, not going to argue the merits of the war in Iraq, but until you provide the evidence needed to and then through the courts, try Ms. Rice for war crimes, she is not a war criminal. As much as you may believe so, (and you can accuse her of of being so), that is just your personal opinion. Further, it does not make her what you claim she is.

As for my use of Kennedy, was he tried for the death of a young woman? No he wasn't. Was he responsible for her death? Not according to the law of the land. Therefore he should not be called a murderer.

It's sad that you are so stuck in radical left wing liberalism, that you have to turn a legal debate in one about politics. Tom's post was about the law and legal issues, not race or the war against terrorism. As I said, a dead person can not be tried in our legal court system. In the court of public opinion, the dead can be tried, hence my example of President Ronald Reagan.

Just an observation, I would not want to live under the legal system of guilt and innocence that liberals want to place Bundy under. I suspect that if they were honest they wouldn't want to either. Does Bundy speak before thinking, does he hold views counter to many Americans, etc, quite possibly so. Does that make him guilty when he hasn't had his day on court? No, it does not.

 
At 11:36 AM, Anonymous John Doe said...

Well Dave, since I haven't said these things:

Others are "Demanding Bundy be lynched".
Hitler wasn't guilty of wrongdoing.
A corporation is a person entitled to human rights .

What's your point?

I have said, as you now have, "We all support his (Bundy's) right to legal due process".

So what's your problem? What are you doing to ensure Bundy get's his legal due process?

What is political about legal due process, and why have you attempted to turn it into that? Is everything political to you?

 
At 11:54 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

What's your point?

Do you mean apart from this one?

We can spell it out, but that doesn't mean it will sink in.

My point was you hold a word like "guilty" to the single narrow legal sense.

Was Hitler guilty of wrongdoing or not?

Why can't you answer a simple yes or no question?

I'll tell you why. It restricts your ability to unilaterally define terms and subvert language to your ideological agenda.

The Right needs to unilaterally define terms (aka destruction of language) to "win". Hence "death tax", "death panel", "liberal media", etc.

None of these actually exist as claimed, but are accepted and pushed in the propaganda of the radical Right.

 
At 12:19 PM, Anonymous John Doe said...

Gee Dave, I guess you dont want the legal process given us by out Constitution. Unless it's your rear end in the sling would be my guess.

I am going to use the famed "DAVE DUBYA DEFENSE" and not answer your questions because they are "loaded".
If it's good enough for you, then it's good enough for me.

It is interesting to me that IRS employees who had not filed or paid their tax bill, were given bonus's for their outstanding work in auditing others tax returns. Yet we have the same govt. going after a rancher in NV for not paying his taxes.

If it's good enough for the IRS employee, then why isn't it good enough for the rest of us?

 
At 12:41 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Thanks to Chuckie Doe for dodging a simple yes or no and proving me correct.

We can spell it out, but that doesn't mean it will sink in.

And thanks for the act of destroying reason again with: "I guess you dont want the legal process given us by out Constitution"

This is the remark of an idiot, asshole, or a cult member.

Never mind I already said, and he acknowledged, "We all support his right to legal due process".

THAT is how the radical Right brain works in its destruction of reason and language.

Agre nailed them totally.

 
At 1:39 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Two misleading claims.
Racist Clippers Owner Donald Sterling Is a WHITE Democrat!

Black on white crime happens more often than the reverse.

Sterling is Jewish. He contributed a couple thousand dollars to Bill Bradley a former basketball player, and a couple more to Gray Davis and Patrick Leahy in the ‘80s and early ‘90’s. NOT A PENNY since the Clinton presidency. NOT A PENNY to Obama. Sterling gave nothing to Democrats during the entirety of the Clinton years. He gave nothing to Democrats during the entirety of the Bush Jr. years. And he has given nothing to Democrats during the entirety of the Obama years
Some “democrat”, huh? In fact, the Kochs have given more money to democratic candidates than Sterling has. Both parties are for sale, you know.
What proof is there that Sterling IS NOW, or ever was, a democrat?
Why, none of course. Just Radical Right propaganda and destruction of language.
Next, who is more likely to be killed by someone of another race? The Right loves to invoke black on white crime. Hmm. I wonder why?
Whites are 6 times as likely to be murdered by another white person as by a black person; and overall, the percentage of white Americans who will be murdered by a black offender in a given year is only 2/10,000ths of 1 percent (0.0002). This means that only 1 in every 500,000 white people will be murdered by a black person in a given year. Although the numbers of black-on-white homicides are higher than the reverse (447 to 218 in 2010), the 218 black victims of white murderers is actually a higher percentage of the black population interracially killed than the 447 white victims of black murderers as a percentage of the white population. In fact, any given black person is 2.75 times as likely to be murdered by a white person as any given white person is to be murdered by an African American.


http://www.timwise.org/2013/08/race-crime-and-statistical-malpractice-how-the-right-manipulates-white-fear-with-bogus-data/

 
At 1:50 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

John I will agree that Blacks are ARRESTED AND CONVICTED of crimes more than whites,as the ZImmerman/ Martin case will illustrate, when combined with the several Blacks who were arrestad and jailed for firing WARNING shots in self defense. I could also tell you that 90+% of serial killers are WHITE, as are the vast majority of pedophiles.

Now, do you want to STAY ON SUBJECT or are you going to deflect some more seeing as you are 100% WRONG about this particular case.

BTW, have you seen the REACTION to the Clippers owner's comments? Any armed liberals standing behind him?

You said Bundy has been DENIED a trial. That is untrue, he's just refused to show up for any of them. Subtle difference.

ANd while the IRS employeee case has NOTHING to do with this one (Another deflection) I'm sure they will be repremanded in some way and ACCEPT THE PUNISHMENT without resorting to armed conflict.

 
At 3:39 PM, Anonymous John Doe said...

Oh I see Dave. Tell us all what races make up the human race? Jewish is a race?
This ought to be good, wonder if we will get more profound insight from FORMER UCLA Prof Phillip Agre?

Racist Clippers Owner Donald Sterling Has Only Contributed to Democrats.

Would you like some quotes about liberalism from Conservative Professors who are still employed by their university? You know two CAN play your game.

Dave, at your chosen profession, who make up the largest percentage of those you are in care of, blacks or whites? Why is that?

Looks like Dave and Mozart are still trying to divert from Tom's post's subject. Typical.

 
At 5:11 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...


“Racist Clippers Owner Donald Sterling Is a WHITE Democrat!”

Turns out Chuckie Doe is the real liar after all.

According to the Los Angeles Board of Elections, Sterling is a registered Republican, who first registered in California in 1974. The state database's records have listed him as a Republican since 2002.


Gee, whodathunk?

 
At 5:15 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Chuckie Doe immediately after telling his PROVEN LIE: "Racist Clippers Owner Donald Sterling Is a WHITE Democrat!"

Have you no shame, have you no ideas that can stand and succeed in an open debate on there own merit? All evidence point to the answer of NO, you do not.



 
At 6:19 PM, Blogger Rain Trueax said...

John Doe, one thing I have learned a long time ago about discussing politics whether it's online or in person-- I speak my mind, try to say what I think is important but recognize i cannot convince others of my viewpoint. Sometimes it's agree to disagree when it's a friend. It saves a lot of heartburn. Of course, that part about expressing my view as well as I can is tricky. Often I look back later and know I could have said something that might've helped. It though was unlikely to convince the other person. So many these days have their minds set and aren't looking for new facts but just a chance to voice their own agenda. Those who are truly open to seeing it a new way are kind of rare it seems.

 
At 7:35 PM, Anonymous John Doe said...

Thanks Rain,
Your correct, sometime peace of mine is better than being right.

 
At 8:07 PM, Blogger Rain Trueax said...

Well, I want to be right. I think I am right :) But that doesn't mean I can convince say a father-in-law that I am. Or a reader of my blog or a friend that I really like in every other way. The other thing I left out and should have included is being willing to listen to their points-- that is unless they are irrational and heading toward violent solutions. I don't even like knowing people who see that as the answer-- from the right or the left.

 
At 9:29 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

The only Conservative I can hold in high esteem on this blog is Harley because he is not afraid to be honest.

 
At 12:01 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

John Doe, why not just go back to calling yourself "Anonymous"?

And where EXATLY are we NOT talking about the subject, other than responses to YOUR deflections?

 
At 1:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mozart,
You need to quit whining!

 
At 9:45 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Chuckie,
You need to quit hating and telling lies.

LOL! Yeah, like that could happen.

That would be like asking a Moonie to leave his cult started by Republican cult leader Sun Myung Moon.

 
At 5:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

When it comes to the current president, Nader said that Obama has violated the Constitution on several occasions and should be impeached.

"Oh, most definitely," Nader said when asked if Congress should bring forward articles of impeachment against Obama. "The reason why Congress doesn't want to do it is because it's abdicated its own responsibility under the Constitution."
http://news.yahoo.com/

 
At 6:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What happens when socialism runs out of other peoples money.

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — Venezuela’s biggest food company is halting work at one of its facilities because of government delays in allotting it dollars to buy wheat from foreign suppliers.

Empresas Polar said in a statement Tuesday that it had no choice but to suspend production and furlough workers at a pasta assembly line after emergency supplies lent by other companies ran out. It gave no date for resuming production of the Primor and Gran Senora brands at a facility in the western city of Maracaibo.

Polar in January said it is owed $463 million by the government agency that controls the nation’s dollar supplies and that the waiting time to process requests has more than quadrupled to 230 days.

The move adds to shortages that have climbed to a record this year.

 
At 10:25 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous, what happens when conservatives run out of facts?

They talk like YOU do.

 
At 11:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Newly released emails on the Benghazi terror attack suggest a senior White House aide played a central role in preparing former U.N. ambassador Susan Rice for her controversial Sunday show appearances -- where she wrongly blamed protests over an Internet video.

More than 100 pages of documents were released to the conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch as part of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit. Among them was a Sept. 14, 2012, email from Ben Rhodes, an assistant to the president and deputy national security adviser for strategic communications.

The Rhodes email, with the subject line: "RE: PREP Call with Susan: Saturday at 4:00 pm ET," was sent to a dozen members of the administration's inner circle, including key members of the White House communications team such as Press Secretary Jay Carney.

In the email, Rhodes specifically draws attention to the anti-Islam Internet video, without distinguishing whether the Benghazi attack was different from protests elsewhere.

The email lists the following two goals, among others:

"To underscore that these protests are rooted in an Internet video, and not a broader failure of policy."

"To reinforce the President and Administration's strength and steadiness in dealing with difficult challenges."

The email goes on to state that the U.S. government rejected the message of the Internet video. "We find it disgusting and reprehensible. But there is absolutely no justification at all for responding to this movie with violence," the email stated.

Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said the documents read like a PR strategy, not an effort to provide the best available intelligence to the American people.

"The goal of the White House was to do one thing primarily, which was to make the president look good. Blame it on the video and not [the] president's policies," he said.

 
At 11:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

PART TWO

The Rhodes email was not part of the 100 pages of emails released by the administration last May -- after Republicans refused to move forward with the confirmation of John Brennan as CIA director until the so-called "talking points" emails were made public.

The email is also significant because in congressional testimony in early April, former deputy CIA director Michael Morell told lawmakers it was Rice, in her Sunday show appearances, who linked the video to the Benghazi attack. Morell said the video was not part of the CIA analysis.

"My reaction was two-fold," Morell told members of the House Intelligence Committee, regarding her appearances. "One was that what she said about the attacks evolving spontaneously from a protest was exactly what the talking points said, and it was exactly what the intelligence community analysts believed. When she talked about the video, my reaction was, that's not something that the analysts have attributed this attack to."

Incidentally, three leading Republicans on Monday night sent letters to the House and Senate foreign affairs committees asking them to compel the administration to explain who briefed Rice in advance of the Sunday talk shows and whether State Department or White House personnel were involved.

"How could former Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice, during the five Sunday talk shows on September 16, 2012, claim that the attacks on our compounds were caused by a hateful video when Mr. Morell testified that the CIA never mentioned the video as a causal factor," said the letter, from Sens. Lindsey Graham, of South Carolina; Kelly Ayotte, of New Hampshire; and John McCain, of Arizona.

The Sept. 14 Rhodes email does not indicate whether there was a "prep call" for Rice, as it suggests. If the call went ahead, it does not indicate who briefed her.

 
At 11:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Recent polling conducted by McLaughlin & Associates for the 2017 Project asked Americans, “If you could undo one thing that President Obama has done as president, what would it be?” The choices that the poll provided were “overregulation of the economy,” “high deficit spending,” “tax increases,” “the economic stimulus package,” and “Obamacare.” And the winner, by a wide margin, was Obamacare.

"IF YOU LIKE YOUR INSURANCE, YOU CAN KEEP IT, PERIOD!"

 
At 10:01 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


SOCIALIST FEEL GOOD STORY OF THE DAY.

Venezuela To Raise National Minimum Wage By 30 Percent, more money to spend in empty grocery stores.

 
At 10:03 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Kaiser Health Tracking Poll released on Tuesday paints a dismal portrait of the nation’s attitudes about Obamacare, including nearly six in ten who said the government fell short of enrollment levels.

Despite the Obama administration’s claim that it enrolled eight million Americans in Obamacare–a figure one million higher than its original seven million target–just 14% of Americans said the government “exceeded expectations.”

A full 57% said Obamacare “is not working as planned” versus 38% who agreed with the statement, “There were some early problems that have been fixed and now the law is basically working as intended.”

HEY MOZART, ARE YOU OUT THERE?

 
At 11:58 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Looks like Chicken Chuckie Doe has to hide as "anonymous" after being called out for lies...again.

Bwaaack, buck, buck.


“He (Bundy)is a window into the soul of modern conservatism,” said Ian Haney López, a law professor at the University of California at Berkeley, who wrote a book called “Dog Whistle Politics.” He added, “A demonization of minorities and a demonization of the government in modern conservatism — those are inextricably linked.”

Not to mention demonization of journalism, education, and liberals.

They will have their fascist dictatorship. The Kochs will see to that.

 
At 12:56 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Don't take my word for it:

Conservative journalist Robert Novak reported, “A good many, perhaps a majority of the party’s leadership, envision substantial political gold to be mined in the racial crisis by becoming in fact, though not in name, the White Man’s Party.” The goal was two-fold: use race to win votes, and to convince voters to distrust liberal government.

 
At 2:00 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Yes Anonymous, I'm herre, and as usual your posts are 100% BS.

Almost ALL of the people those polls say "disapprove" of OBama care, do so because IT DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH). Go figure you always leave that part out.

Whoda thunk it eh?

 
At 4:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mozart
And you found your claim fro reading the Kaiser Health Tracking Poll?

What happens when socialism runs out of other people's money? They play the race card.

 
At 4:17 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Chuckie,

"Other peoples money"??

Oh, like when our tax dollars were handed over to reward your Wall Street banksters for their work in collapsing our economy?

What happens with severe income inequality?

What happens when the greedy elites wind up with all the money?

What happens when deregulated capitalism fails... AGAIN??

America and Americans were both better off before Reagan's false "trickle down" only trickled up. Americans were better off before the Right's war on democracy and corporatist deregulation.

Tell us how better off our country is with more tax cuts for the rich and less regulation of Wall Street?

Run, Chicken Chuckie, run! Run from the truth like the proven LIAR you are.

 
At 5:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dave, Mozart, did you believe that "if you like your doctor, you can keep them, and if your lie your insurance you can keep it"?

You cant answer "What happens when socialism runs out of other people's money?" You really can't answer that question, even thought that is what is happening now in Venezuela. Is Venezuela's current problem due to Wall Street, corp greed, and trickle down economics?
Does Venezuela have income equality? Every one there is flat broke, because that's whats it sound like. Is that the income equality you want?

You think you know solutions but you are the ones who believed the lies you were told about Obamacare. By Obama. Now you think we should believe anything you say? We should trust and believe in the plans for our economic future that you say will work? You were fooled like the majority of voters 2008 and 2013, and you were lied to. Admit it LOL!

First quarter economic growth was what in the USA? And the cause was the cold weather? While at the same time you are screaming the sky is falling and we are all doomed because of global warming! . How long do you think the American public is going to swallow the tripe being spewed by you of the radical, far left liberals as the solutions to the very problems you have helped create?

See me after the NOV election, I've got your things and people to blame list all ready for you.

 
At 5:46 PM, Anonymous Phred said...

One of President Obama’s closest advisers doesn’t want to talk about her secret meetings with wealthy liberal donors this week.

White House aide Valerie Jarrett attended this week’s meeting in Chicago of the Democracy Alliance of super rich, liberal donors. But when a reporter for Politico approached Jarrett at the conference and asked her if Democrats were being hypocritical by raising money from wealthy liberals while slamming conservative donors as part of their 2014 election strategy, the aide refused to talk.

Ken Vogel of Politico wrote Wednesday: “Democratic attacks on the Koch brothers for secretive campaign spending have become a virtual plank in the party’s platform, but it turns out big-money liberals can be just as defensive when their own closed-door activities are put in the spotlight.”

Vogel reported that, “Jarrett refused to make eye contact” when he approached her at the conference at the Ritz Carlton and attempted to ask her questions.

 
At 7:55 PM, Anonymous Chuckie said...

Poor Dave Dubya,

He proudly wears his hopium glasses and believes in whatever the black guy in the white house says. Dave would kiss the black guy's skinny ass if given the chance.

And poor Hillary,

What is worse Bridge Gate or Benghazi Gate? Clearly there was a massive cover up, Hugo Chavez style. "I have a tummy ache" says Hillary as to why she couldn't speak publicly about Benghazi immediately after it happened. "What difference does it make anyway?"

And poor Tom Degan,

Cliven is a dead story, but you will make it out like Cliven and the billionaire basketball owner are what the typical tea party members are like just like the race baiter Al "Tawana Brawley" Sharptoon.

 
At 8:09 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

what is worse, Benghazi or 9/11?

 
At 11:51 PM, Anonymous The real John said...

Hmmm, this topic spawned a sudden proliferation of Johns... I feel violated.

 
At 11:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

John,

How do you think Chuck must feel?

 
At 3:26 PM, Anonymous Chuck said...

Tom, Dave, Mozart, Jay
from one radical left wing socialist liberal to another,
HAPPY MAY DAY!!

All power to the working class peoples of the world!

 
At 11:38 PM, Anonymous Hillary Clintoon said...

Anonymous James Hansen said...
"what is worse, Benghazi or 9/11?"

James, What Difference Does It Make?

 
At 2:27 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous, when your questions make relevent sense, let us know. PURE Socialism doesn't work any better than PURE Capitalism. But taking ideas from both depending on the situation DOES work. Why do you let Glenn Beck do your thinking for you?

 
At 9:23 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Minorities have largely shied away from signing up for the Affordable Care Act, though they are more likely to be uninsured than whites.

Some 63 percent of the people who picked insurance plans on the exchanges and reported their race were white, according to federal data released Thursday. Blacks made up 16.7 percent of sign-ups, while Latinos accounted for only 10.7 percent and Asians for 7.9 percent.

The relatively scant participation by minorities comes despite a heavy push by the Obama administration and its supporters into Latino and black communities. Some 32 percent of the uninsured were Latinos and 15 percent were black in 2012, according to the most recent Census Bureau figures.

Does Obamacare require a photo ID to sign up, maybe that's the problem?

 
At 10:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"PURE Socialism doesn't work any better than PURE Capitalism."
Mozart.

The same Mozart who believed
"if you like your doctor, you can keep them, if you like your insurance you can keep it. PERIOD!"

 
At 3:15 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

The likelihood of 9/11 being allowed to happen or even supported by Bush/Chaney is almost certain. Their subsequent total disregard for law, lives and consequences make believing 9/11 was an inside job very creditable.

9/11 was the beginning of an eight year long wet dream for the Neocons and anybody associated with them. No-bid, cost plus contracts resulted in Burn Pits operating 24 hours a day for years in Iraq. Driving a brand new $100,000 truck into a burn pit made a contractor $20,000 in profit. Selling gas at $600.00 a gallon to the military wasted money at an amazing pace.

I believe the main reason Conservatives support Republican politicians is because they are uninformed about much of what happened in the last 14 years.

 
At 3:17 PM, Anonymous Dave Alinsky Dubya said...

Even with the shit hitting the fan on Benghazi (where Hillary was supposed to "handle the call" LOL), I can't believe how many of us kool aid drinking liberals would still follow Hillary [ a lying woman who has no accomplishments] over a cliff.

Bwaaaaaaaaaack buck buck!

 
At 3:45 PM, Anonymous Dave Alinsky Dubya said...

David Rhoades president of CBS News, is the brother of Ben Rhoades who wrote the Benghazi talking points.

Ben Sherwood president of ABC News is the brother of Dr. Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, a special advisor to Barack Obama.


Lets face the facts. The cat has been let out of the bag. These "news" organizations are nothing more than an agency of the Obama Administration.

Our Messiah has turned out to be a real dud. He really talked a big game for all of us gullible sheep to follow.

His only real accomplishment was to successfully seal his academic records! How Brilliant!

 
At 3:49 PM, Anonymous John Doe said...

"The likelihood of 9/11 being allowed to happen or even supported by Bush/Chaney is ALMOST (you're joking, right?) certain. Their subsequent total disregard for law, lives and consequences make believing 9/11 was an inside job very creditable."

Uh oh, sounds like the Area 51, black helicopter, tin foil hat crowd is out.

If they believe the above, I'm sure they believed "if you like your doctor, you can keep them, if you like your insurance you can keep it. PERIOD!"
All the while mocking those who dare question the WH version of Benghazi events.

"I think that the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief" Hillary Clinton.

Hear that James Hansen, it requires a suspension of disbelief to accept your version of the events surrounding 9-11. Tell us James Hansen, did you believe that,
"if you like your doctor, you can keep them, if you like your insurance you can keep it. PERIOD!" And you want us to believe as you do, that 9-11 was an inside job?
LOL

Gonna call it like it is, the reappearance again of the claim that 9-11 was an inside job is just an attempt to deflect from the growing storm about Benghazi that is brewing as more true is leaked to the public by the most transparent administration in our country's history.

Is it time to play the race card again?

 
At 4:26 PM, Anonymous Dave Alinsky Dubya said...

I'm just glad that mother f*cker in that red state's Oklahoma prison got that slow and painful death for raping, shotgunning twice in the face, and burying alive a 19 year old girl.

Clayton Lockett deserved to die for his crimes. For someone guilty of crimes like his, any penalty other than death, including life without parole, is justice denied. Here in the blue state of Michigan there is still plenty of healthy nutritious food to eat, high definition cable TV to watch, and weights to lift at taxpayer expense for someone like Clayton!

Only a bleeding heart liberal would complain about his injustice when dying! No skin off my ass to how painful his death was, he deserved it. just sayin.

And to all the anti capital punishment sh*theads on Tom's blog, since when has capital punishment not been effective as a deterrent? Not one time in the history of the world has an executed criminal committed another crime!

 
At 4:42 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

The evil liar claimed, "Gonna call it like it is".

Yeah, like the racist billionaire is a democrat?

Tom,

The shit smearing fascist(s) is taking over your comment thread.

Good faith discussion and honest debate are important, but the troll wants none of that. I'm sorry you feel a need to allow that asshole racist liar to steal the names of your readers.

I would suggest that tolerance of evil and hate is not a virtue.

Why tolerate a hateful, evil, red-baiting troll taking my name and spewing off-topic lies about Benghazi? I thought you said that kind of thing wouldn't be welcome.

How many lies are enough? How many readers are driven away by his nastiness and hate?

Why invite rude belligerent drunks back to the party? My questions are rhetorical but my point is this:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".

It's your blog and your call, but if you took a poll, you may find most of us share this view.














 
At 5:10 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous, is there ANY WAY you could stop WHINING for just ONE blog? We are WAAAAYYY past the things you are boobing about, but you just keep bringing up te same old tired crap like a good "dittohead". This blog is about a CRIMINAL who thinks he's above the law allowing his cattle to graze on public land without paying the fees. That is THEFT. He's also a racist. Do try to stay on subject will you?

 
At 5:21 PM, Anonymous Chuckie said...

Dave Dubya,

Dude "What difference at this point does it make?" about your crybaby post?

Your "Good faith discussion and honest debate" is a f*cking lie!

To be politically incorrect:
1. Obama's foreign policy is a f*cking disaster
2. Obama's economic policy is a f*cking disaster (growth in GDP is a joke, while unemployment "goes down", the labor particpation rate is also going down)
3. Obama's health care plan is a f*cking disaster

Keep your Obama hopium glasses on Dave LOL!

PS - James Hansen sounds like Jefferson's Guardian!

 
At 6:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Good faith discussion and honest debate are important"

How can you have a debate with people who believe

"if you like your doctor, you can keep them, if you like your insurance you can keep it. PERIOD!"

and

"The likelihood of 9/11 being allowed to happen or even supported by Bush/Chaney is ALMOST (you're joking, right?) certain. Their subsequent total disregard for law, lives and consequences make believing 9/11 was an inside job very creditable."

and

"lies about Benghazi"

Hey DUDE, what lies have been said about Benghazi? None I'm sure from the most transparent administration in our country's history.

"What difference does it make now anyway?"

 
At 6:19 PM, Anonymous John Q. Public said...

Darn it Mozart, did you read what DD just said about you?

"Why invite rude belligerent drunks back to the party."


Mozart1220 said...

Yes Anonymous, I'm herre, and as usual your posts are 100% BS.

Almost ALL of the people those polls say "disapprove" of OBama care, do so because IT DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH). Go figure you always leave that part out.

Whoda thunk it eh?

2:00 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mozart
And you found your claim from reading the Kaiser Health Tracking Poll?

What happens when socialism runs out of other people's money? They play the race card.
If I were you I would be whining a lot!

 
At 6:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yea Tom, I have to agree with Dave and Rob Schneider, the fascist are taking over.

PHILADELPHIA (CBS) – Chris Stigall spoke with comedian Rob Schneider on Talk Radio 1210 WPHT about the struggle comedians face in today’s current political environment.

Schneider struck on ominous tone when discussing the path he sees the country on.

“Democracies don’t end well. We are sliding very fast towards FASCISM". It’s an ugly kind of thing. There’s this kind of mob mentality that we have to be careful of,” he said.

He believes comedians are pressured toward one side of the political spectrum.

“There’s a polarization that’s happening…I do think you look can look at government and go, ‘Wow, it is out of control now,’ and if you do criticize or tend to be not directly along a liberal stand, you can get murdered,” Schneider commented.

Schneider was very critical of the President’s handling of the economy and he feels certain policies are impacting businesses.

“There’s not one segment of business under the Obama administration that hasn’t been hurt…he attacks for-profit schools, which is totally an elitist thing from a guy that went to Harvard. I think for free, by the way,” Schneider said.

He was also critical of the media for being overly influenced by the government and not standing up for the American people.

“We don’t really have freedom of the press. It’s owned by about eight different companies, and it doesn’t really express or help the average American,” Schneider stated."

BTW DD,how do you justify whining about somebody misusing your name after what you did to Chuck Morre's name?

 
At 9:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wait a minute Dave, are liberal's all for diversity?

 
At 1:30 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

There’s not one segment of business under the Obama administration that hasn’t been hurt…

Still spreading ignorance, hate and lies. It’s all they got. Good little goose-stepper.

The truth:

U.S. corporations’ after-tax profits have grown by 171 percent under Obama, more than under any president since World War II, and are now at their highest level relative to the size of the economy since the government began keeping records in 1947, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-17/corporate-profits-soar-as-executives-attack-obama-policy.html

 
At 5:54 PM, Anonymous Chuckie said...

Everyone knows Jay Carney and Ben Rhodes (who are so loyal to the progressive cause) are lying about Benghazi, and yet they have been so ingrained with Saul Alinksy's Rules for Radicals that they have become progressive robots who don't have an original thought process left.

It is impossible to shame or embarrass a lying liberal, the means justify their utopian ends where everyone in society gets the same sized slice of pizza.

You have to have a soul to have regret about how you achieve your utopians ends. Look at the poker faces of the leading progressives: Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy "lets pass the bill to find out whats in it" Pelosi as they lie through their teeth about Benghazi, Obamacare, and the gestapo Fascist tactics of the IRS. Most liberals have no soul and those that did, like Alinskey, sold theirs to Satan.

On the blogs you will see the little progressive people who cling to their utopian dreams of perfect social equality where everyone is equally poor except the central planners who fly around in their jets dumping large amounts of pollution into the atmosphere. Witness DD, Dodge and Deflect, also known as Dave Dubya.

 
At 6:54 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

OK Tom, it's time to start deleting the "fruitloop" posts from the Koch Bros rep here again.

CHucky has gone "round the bend" with Anonymous.

 
At 10:56 PM, Blogger Chuck Morre said...

Hey Dave, take it up with Rob Schneider, He's the one who called the president a fascist, not me. I just happen to agree with his concerns. I would think as many times as you have throw Obama under the bus by calling him a corporatist and not a liberal you would agree with Mr. Schneider.

Hold on Mozart, are you saying you are not for diversity?

I guess I'm just behind the times but I just found this out. Kind explains why liberals hate Fox News so much.. no one at Fox is related to anyone in the WH.

CNN President Virgina Moseley is married to H. Clinton's Deputy Secretary, Tom Nides

CBS President David Rhodes is brother of top WH official Ben Rhodes (changer of the Benghazi talking points no less)

ABC President Ben Sherwood is sibling to Elizabeth Sherwood, Obama special adviser.


No wonder this administration has gotten away with lies about,

keeping your insurance and Dr, if you like them (BTW did you or Mozart believe that lie?)

Conservative groups being singled out by IRS was only done by a small group of rouge IRS agents in the Cincinnati IRS office.

And the lie that the murder of four Americans was cause by a video on You Tube.

I can understand that it does require a suspension of common sense to believe what the most transparent administration in our nation's history has told us was the truth.
Oops, is that another lie, naugh that just blaming the Black Guy, like blaming MS. C. Rice or Justice Thomas, it's ok to do that if they are conservative, but dont touch them if they are liberal. HA!

Mozart,
And you found your claim from reading the Kaiser Health Tracking Poll?

DO I see the race card coming out of the deck in Dave's hand??

 
At 12:27 AM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Republicans are masters on making mountains out of molehills with this Benghazi topic. Too bad they never bring up the real problems with the Obama administration.
That's because they support some of his worst policies so they attack him with made up shit like Benghazi.

How Conservatives support and believe these Republican snake oil salesman is beyond me.
I believe most of the Democratic politicians are assholes and it is easy for me to criticize them.

But the Conservative posters here are blind as bats and will defend to the death the assholes on their side.

 
At 12:29 AM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Republicans are masters on making mountains out of molehills with this Benghazi topic. Too bad they never bring up the real problems with the Obama administration.
That's because they support some of his worst policies so they attack him with made up shit like Benghazi.

How Conservatives support and believe these Republican snake oil salesman is beyond me.
I believe most of the Democratic politicians are assholes and it is easy for me to criticize them.

But the Conservative posters here are blind as bats and will defend to the death the assholes on their side.

 
At 8:01 AM, Anonymous Chuckie said...

James Hansen, this is for you:

http://www.namendaxr.com/alzheimers-disease-stages.aspx
What is Alzheimer's disease?

Alzheimer's disease is a type of dementia that causes problems with memory, thinking, and behavior. It is a progressive disease.


Looks like at 12:29 AM you forgot you posted at 12:27 AM.

Did your old health insurance plan cover Alzheimer's disease? Are you covered for it now with ObamaCare?

 
At 10:59 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

James,
How Conservatives support and believe these Republican snake oil salesman is beyond me.

John Dean's book "Conservatives without Conscience" does a great job describing the right wing authoritarian personality. He should know. He worked for Nixon.

I believe most of the Democratic politicians are assholes and it is easy for me to criticize them.

But the Conservative posters here are blind as bats and will defend to the death the assholes on their side.


The authoritarian followers cannot allow themselves to think outside the indoctrination of their authoritarian leaders.

This is why I accurately characterize them the Radical Right Bubble Cult (RRBC).

They cling to their far right fringe beliefs no matter what the facts are. As you see, we can note their lies and offer correct information, but they will always ignore it.

They want to BELIEVE Sterling is a democrat. They want to BELIEVE "There’s not one segment of business under the Obama administration that hasn’t been hurt", so that is what they will believe. They will believe Obama is a Kenyan Marxist, because they want to believe. They will believe the ACA has death panels, because they want to believe. They will believe the IRS examined only conservative political groups, because they want to believe. They will believe in a Benghazi cover up because they want to believe.

There's nothing too crazy for them to believe as long as it's something negative or demonizes democrats or liberals.

They are a cult. Their authoritarian leaders need to promote their hate and ignorance because that is the only way to convince Americans to abandon the will of the people and follow the dictates of the elites.

This explains why we have a center left population and a right wing corporatist government.

The vast majority of Americans favor progressive policies. Consider:

— 90% of the citizens support legislation requiring background checks for gun purchase, but Congress can’t pass one.

— 74% of Americans want to end subsidies to big oil – but there’s no chance of it happening;

— The majority of citizens favored allowing tax cuts for those earning over $250,000 to expire, but the best we could do is compromise on $400,000

— 70% of Americans consider climate change to be a high priority issue, yet Congress has taken no action;

— Some 80% of Americans favor shoring up Social Security even if it means higher taxes and a similar number support retaining Medicare as is, but democrats twice offered cuts to both programs as part of a “grand bargain”;

—And more than 80% of Americans want to clamp down on Wall Street but the best we could get was weak-sister legislation that is being completely eviscerated as it is translated into regulations.

-A large majority of Americans want Congress to substantially increase the minimum wage as part of an effort to reduce the nation’s expanding economic inequality, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

-As a growing share of the country’s income flows to the very wealthiest, the poll found that 57 percent of Americans say lawmakers should pursue policies aimed at balancing an economic system they think is out of whack.

-Nearly two in three say federal policy is tilted toward helping the rich over Americans who are less well-off, according to the survey.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/majority-of-americans-want-minimum-wage-to-be-increased-poll-finds/2013/12/17/b6724bb0-6743-11e3-ae56-22de072140a2_story.html

 
At 2:14 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Is anybody wondering where Tom is? The last time he went 2 weeks without a new post he had a near death experience. I believe 129 posts is an all time record for one topic.

 
At 2:27 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Here is a P&C that sheds a little light on Benghazi.


BENGHAZI- CIA Outpost masquerading as a Diplomatic outpost. 32 CIA agents, 6 State de[artment employees. The Ex Seals , CIA contarctors

“Eric Boswell, the head of diplomatic security at the State Department, has resigned, following the release of a harsh report detailing State Department missteps that led to the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi. He had been appointed to this position under George Bush.

The report, released today by an independent board led by retired Ambassador Thomas Pickering and former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen, did not single out any individuals for culpability. It did, however, blame failures within two bureaus at the State Department for the missteps that eventually lead to the deaths of Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three additional American personnel in Libya. The two bureaus cited -- Near Eastern Affairs and Diplomatic Security -- were criticized for a security posture that was "grossly inadequate to deal with the attack," and for failing to coordinate with other agencies to better secure the consulate.”

Both Bureaus heads were Bush appointments, who were not called by Republicans in the House to testify..

 
At 2:36 PM, Blogger Chuck Morre said...

For sure man, take Dave D's word for it.
As the smartest man on the blog, he believed that you could keep your insurance and Dr if you liked them, under Obamacare. PERIOD!

That Conservative groups being singled out by IRS was only done by a small group of rouge IRS agents in the Cincinnati IRS office.

And that the murder of four Americans was cause by a video on You Tube.

You can take it to the bank that if Mr. Dubya says it, it's the truth.

LOL.

 
At 2:55 PM, Blogger Chuck Morre said...

James H,
So just like 9-11 was the fault of Bush, so was the murder of four Americans in Benghazi? Really?

And that's why Ms.S Rice on five Sunday shows told us the murders were the result of a You Tube video. That those talking points had nothing, absolutely nothing do to with he 2008 Presidential election?

To paraphrase then Senator H. Clinton,
"I think the posts your provide to us require the willing suspension of disbelief."

I hope and pray Tom's not ill, but also am thankful that if he is ill, he lives in the country with the best medical health care in the world. It would really suck to be sick in Cuba or Venezuela or the United Kingdom.

 
At 3:01 PM, Blogger Chuck Morre said...

James,
Are you now telling us that not was only Bush behind 9-11, but also behind the murder of four Americans in Benghazi?

To paraphrase then Senator Clinton,
The posts you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief.

BTW, did you believe the President when he told you if you liked your insurance and you like your Dr, you would be able to keep them? PERIOD! Haven't found any honest liberals (I guess there are still a few) who have answered that question.

As for Tom, I hope and pray that he is not ill. But am grateful that if he is, he lives where the best medical health care in the world exists.

 
At 3:09 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

You can take it to the bank that if Mr. Dubya says it, it's the truth.

How about that? Chuckie can be right once in a while.

But he still drinks his koolade with this doozy:

"There’s not one segment of business under the Obama administration that hasn’t been hurt."

Glug, glug, glug. Drink up.

 
At 5:15 PM, Blogger Chuck Morre said...

To be honest Dave, I didn't say that. I simply quoted Rob Schneider, something that with all your intellectual prowess I am surprised you haven't yet grasped.

But as we are talking about you, tell me, did you believe the President when he told you if you liked your insurance and your DR, you could keep them? PERIOD!

Did you believe that Conservative groups being singled out by IRS, was only done by a small group of rouge IRS agents in the Cincinnati IRS office."

And that the murder of four Americans was cause by a video on You Tube?

Maybe a more intellectually honest question would be to ask do you still believe these?

 
At 5:34 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Chuck, you are boring the hell out of me repeating the same lame points over and over. Get some new material to criticize Obama by going to a Liberal website, they have tons of issues you can choose from. Even better yet, come up with a Republican issue you do not agree with, if that is possible.

 
At 5:44 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

To be honest Dave, I didn't say that. I simply quoted Rob Schneider…

That’s what you call “honest”?

First you posted the lie, then you agreed with his lie right here:

take it up with Rob Schneider, He's the one who called the president a fascist, not me. I just happen to agree with his concerns.

Then I showed proof that it was a lie. You push lies all the time. How do you sleep, one would be tempted to ask. But we know the authoritarian personality is never concerned with matters of conscience. Lies in service to far Right ideology are just fine and dandy. In fact, they are necessary tools to deceive gullible voters. Even Obama’s “Big Lie” is mostly true. Most Americans still have insurance and the same doctor.

And the Kochs poor little liar puppet Julie may yet accept the truth.

You meant this Julie Boonstra ?

Dexter cancer patient who called health care 'unaffordable' will save more than $1K

“I personally do not believe that,” Boonstra said

Of course not, Bubble Cult beliefs trump facts.

Too bad Julie jumped on the radical Right’s Hate Wagon full of liars before getting the facts in the first place.

--

James,

come up with a Republican issue you do not agree with, if that is possible.

Yeah, we know the odds of that happening. LOL!

 
At 6:58 PM, Anonymous Ron Baldwin said...


Chuck Moore asked James at 3:01 PM, “BTW, did you believe the President when he told you if you liked your insurance and you like your Dr, you would be able to keep them? PERIOD! Haven't found any honest liberals (I guess there are still a few) who have answered that question.”

I believe I am a very “honest liberal” and I can answer a resounding YES” to that question. I have been funding a PPO health insurance plan for my 55 year old daughter for many years. Ten years ago she had breast cancer that gave her a major pre-existing condition. Fortunately her health insurance company did not cancel her insurance but tens years of double digit premium increases led to my paying almost $21,000 in premiums plus co-pays in 2013 for her health insurance. On the Obamacare Federal Exchange she signed up as of January 1, 2014 for a Cigna PPO silver plan and she continued with ALL her health care providers. The full cost premium for that Cigna PPO plan is $657 a month. Because of her meager earnings a Federal subsidy brought the premium to $233.10 a month with a $1,900 deductible and a maximum annual out-of-pocket cost of less than $7,000. We splurged and added a dental insurance plan that brought the total premium to $263.20 a month.

Those are facts. BTW, I have been a licensed CPA since February 1961 and at age 80 still have an active practice.

 
At 6:59 PM, Blogger Chuck Morre said...

James Hansen said...

"Chuck, you are boring the hell out of me repeating the same lame points over and over."

Maybe they wouldn't be so boring if Dave or you answered those points. Then we could have a debate on you believing the party line hook line and sinker and what's it got you so far.

What do you say?

Think either of you can be honest and admit you were fooled and lied to by Obama?

While are dealing with boring things, kind of wonder how you think Bus,h who has be called the stupidest President in our history, could have pulled off not only 9-11 BUT also Benghazi. Planning a year before he was in office in one case and after he was out of office for 4 years in the other.

Sorry but I refuse to play the game of let's talk about how bad the Koch's are but instead will continue to ask you to defend your positions.
The Koch's have done quite well with out my help so far, I doubt they need my help now.

 
At 9:40 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Chuck, you are starting to make me feel bad for you. All of my posts at the Rant has always been critical of Obama and just a few posts upstream I stated my opinion of politicians on both sides.

I have always been honest, I stated several times in the past Obama was a huge disappointment and I did not vote for him the second time around. Do you remember the words I used" bait and switch"?

I see you are so partisan you do not know who I am.

As far as Bush and Benghazi is concerned, you are making it up, I never did. Chaney is another story, He had the motive, drive, intelligence and power to influence 9/11 for his benefit.

 
At 2:28 AM, Blogger Chuck Morre said...


Both Bureaus heads were Bush appointments, who were not called by Republicans in the House to testify..

The Bush admin is responsible for killing over one million innocent Iraqis, that's a big fucking deal!

A war of unprovoked aggression was inflicted on Iraq for years and nobody is to blame?
We are known around the world as the nation that tortures prisoners of war, but if the Bush Chaney admin had nothing to do with it, how did it happen then?


Hansen, did you not post these things?

 
At 9:28 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Interestingly, the story has fallen off the media radar screen before Tom could even get to the next topic...

Indicative of the media times we live in where stories are selected to develop and bolster pre-conceived, packaged narratives vs. being reported for news-worthiness...

 
At 10:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amid a swelling international outcry over the kidnapping of scores of Nigerian schoolgirls by Islamist terrorists, Secretary of State John Kerry at the weekend again pledged U.S. support for efforts to locate and rescue them.

“The kidnapping of hundreds of children by Boko Haram is an unconscionable crime, and we will do everything possible to support the Nigerian government to return these young women to their homes and to hold the perpetrators to justice,” he said in a speech in the Ethiopian capital, Ethiopia.

“I will tell you, my friends, I have seen this scourge of terror across the planet, and so have you,” he continued. “They don’t offer anything except violence. They don’t offer a HEALTH CARE PLAN, they don’t offer schools. They don’t tell you how to build a nation, they don’t talk about how they will provide jobs. They just tell people, ‘You have to behave the way we tell you to,’ and they will punish you if you don’t."

Interesting.

 
At 2:54 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

That the Republicans did not speak to the heads of two security groups points out they are performing political grandstanding. They want to blame Obama no matter what the facts may be.

Bush was just along for the ride, Chaney got stuff done, he was the real president.

 
At 5:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


"Bush was just along for the ride, Chaney got stuff done, he was the real president."

And the evidence you have to support that claim is?

 

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