Thursday, November 28, 2013

Thanksgiving


"Here's another fine mess you've gotten me into."

Oliver Norvell Hardy

The meaning of the photograph of Laurel and Hardy at the top of this little greeting alludes  me. I'm sure that there is a good reason why Stan is dressed in drag or why Ollie is dressed as a pilgrim. The boys usually had a good reason for everything they did - even if the reasoning was clear only to themselves. I loved those two guys. When you die and arrive in Heaven, if there are only two entertainers in the entire place, I'm sure it will be Laurel and Hardy. God rest their silly souls.

Bleak as things sometimes may appear we still do have much to be grateful for on this windy and very chilly Thanksgiving morn. We could be living in Kabul or Baghdad or Mississippi. You've gotta count your blessings where you find them. Apologies in advance to those of you living in Kabul or Baghdad or Mississippi. 

There is no real rhyme or reason for this morning's posting. Its point is simply to wish all of you a safe and happy Thanksgiving - regardless of your political persuasion. Whenever I start to feel sorry for myself (whatever the reason) I am reminded that, all in all, life has dealt me a pretty good hand. I'm not exactly sure where I'll be having Thanksgiving dinner today - but I know I'll be having it somewhere. I have multiple choices, isn't that grand? Some of us have nowhere to go; no one to share this day with. Those are the people we need to remember today. Keep your fingers crossed and your hands folded for them.

I know that tonight, when I lay myself down to sleep, it won't be on an empty stomach. I'll go off into dreamland in a warm bed with a roof over my head. Life is pretty good. 

Tracy Murphy
Have a great day, folks, and if you can, follow the example of my friend, Tracy Murphy, and go vegan. Save the life of some poor turkey. Gobble!Gobble!

Cheers!
`
Tom Degan 

AFTERTHOUGHT:

Here's a link to Tracy's website:
`
The Buffalo Vegetarian Society
`
Have a look!

43 Comments:

At 9:52 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Listening to Arlo's tale of Alice's Restaurant. At least he had two thanksgiving dinners "that couldn't be beat".

Happy Thanksgiving.

 
At 9:55 AM, Anonymous dangerouslysane said...

Happy Thanksgiving, Tom! I'm sure you'll wind up having a ball today. I'm thankful for much in my life, too--& it doesn't hurt that I got to connect w/my Kindred Soul, either.

Will be celebrating with my family, a county over from you.

Cheers!

 
At 10:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know why Barack Obama is having problems executing his agenda?

Rapper Kanye West told 105.1 FM radio in New York City earlier this week that it’s because “Black people don't have the same level of connections as Jewish people”

 
At 12:59 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Someone wants to spread his hate on Thanksgiving.

Hope he's not as lonely as he seems.

 
At 4:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL quoting the truth is now hate.
I'm thankful for Obamacare because. 30 Million uninsured Americans now have access to health insurance. Good luck in accessing it.

WASHINGTON — Hunter Alford is the happy kid next door with a big grin who idolizes country music star Blake Shelton.
His parents call him a “wild, fun loving, zombie-killing boy who loves the military and police.”
He is normal in every way, except this 7-year-old already plays guitar and keyboards and has his heart set on learning to fiddle.
Something else sets Hunter apart.
He was born with a rare form of cancer and lost his health insurance just after Obamacare went into effect.
Americans were told the health-care law was designed to help children just like Hunter, born with a deadly pre-existing condition and little means to pay for expensive treatments.
The Affordable Care Act was not supposed to take away the insurance these most-vulnerable children already had and leave them utterly defenseless against a life-threatening disease.


Former heavyweight boxing champion Mike Tyson became an unlikely addition to the chorus of ObamaCare critics late Wednesday, saying the law's rollout has been “horrible.”

“It just really went horrible, didn't it? It's really bad,” Tyson said during an appearance on CNN's “Piers Morgan Live” to promote his new autobiography, "Undisputed Truth," and discuss the "knockout game."

Tyson said he supported the healthcare reform law “100 percent,” but said, thus far, it simply hasn't worked.




 
At 5:33 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

LOL quoting the truth is now hate.

Oh really? And what "truth" is that?

Your hate is the sad, and only, truth you convey. Unless you care to explain how a Kanye West remark has any relevance.

Didn't think so.

Just an excuse for a racist troll to dump some of his hate in a Thanksgiving post. Thanks a lot. You're a real class act.

More "Con-servative values" and hypocrisy from the real party of hate.

You should dancing with delight over the fact people will have less to eat because of the Con-servative "values" reflected in cutting food stamps.

Why aren't you happy? Too much anger and hate, perhaps?

Go back and read what the Pope said. Try to understand for just one second what the real truth is. Truth so obvious that both a conservative Church leader and liberals can see.

Look at what the Pope said, Chuckie.

While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control. A new tyranny is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules... To all this we can add widespread corruption and self-serving tax evasion, which have taken on worldwide dimensions.

But nobody in the Cult Bubble of hate can even discuss it.

Better attack black people instead. It's the racist thing to do.










 
At 8:05 PM, Anonymous Mark.M. said...

right back at ya Tom. happy thanksgiving that is. Living in s.c. these past five years, hense the ya. enjoying your blog and the often references to our home town and county. M.L.M.

 
At 11:22 PM, Anonymous bobjam said...

The Pilgrims’ Short Lived Experiment in Communism

Many have credited Karl Marx with inventing what we now know as communism in the middle of the 19th century. The concept of communal living and dependence, however, came long before The Communist Manifesto. Over the centuries, the concept has been applied by different people in different places. While the reasons for applying the communal approach varied as widely as the people who attempted it, one thing did remain constant: Failure. From Roman latifundiae to the Soviet Union, communism time and again proved the failure inherent in its concept. Americans do not need to look to distant lands and little known peoples for evidence of the failure of communism. They simply need to look back at one of the most celebrated groups of people in their history: the Pilgrims.

As most educated Americans know, Puritan Separatists, or Pilgrims, landed in Massachusetts in 1620. What many don’t realize is that the original economic system of their colony, Plymouth Plantation, was a form of communism. There was neither private property nor division of labor. Food was grown for the town and distributed equally amongst all. The women who washed clothes and dressed meat did so for everyone and not just for their own families. This sounds like the perfect agrarian utopia envisioned by Marx and Lenin. What happened to it?
By 1623, the colony was barely producing enough corn to keep everyone alive. Fresh supplies from England were few and far between. Without some major change, the colony would face famine again.

All this while no supply was heard of, neither knew they when they might expect any. So they began to think how they might raise as much corn as they could, and obtain a better crop than they had done, that they might not still thus languish in misery. At length, after much debate of things, the Governor (with the advise of the chiefest among them) gave way that they should set corn every man for his own particular, and in that regard trust to themselves; in all other things to go in the general way as before. And so assigned to every family a parcel of land, according to the proportion of the number, for that end, only for present use (but made no division for inheritance) and ranged all boys and youth under some family. This had very good success, for it made all hands industrious, so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been by any means the Governor or any other could use, and saved him a great deal of trouble, and gave far better content. The women now went willingly into the field, and took their little ones with them to set corn; which before would allege weakness and inability; whom to have compelled would have been thought great tyranny and oppression.

With weak crops and little hope of supply, the Pilgrims divided the parcels among the families and told them to grow their own food. They found that those who would pretend they couldn’t work due to infirmity, weakness or inability (sound familiar?) gladly went to work in the fields. Corn production increased dramatically and famine was averted because communism was eliminated. Understanding the reasons for the failure is just as important, if not more important, than learning about the failure itself.

The communal system failed because it treated the older and wiser the same way as the young and brash. It failed because it rewarded the less productive as much as the more productive. It failed because members of the community found that they could do less and still get the same benefit. All of these problems arose in a very religious community in which gluttony and laziness were considered sins and drunkenness was rare. How much more would communism fail in a larger society where such problems are rampant! By returning to a system in which one’s benefit was directly tied to his production, the Pilgrims ensured the survival of their colony.

And that boys and girls is why socialism/communism fails, it does not take into account the corruption of the human heart. Why work if you can get it free.

 
At 11:58 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Yeah, bobjam,

Now tell us the part how the Pilgrims paid for the land they settled, that it's not "free" when a king says you can have it.

Then tell us how they saved the starving natives, and taught them how to survive, too.

Cult bubble history. LOL!

Teach us the virtues of capitalism where greed is non-existent.

Tell us where the Pope gets it all wrong:

While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control. A new tyranny is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules... To all this we can add widespread corruption and self-serving tax evasion, which have taken on worldwide dimensions.


And that boys and girls is why global corporatist capitalism does not take into account the corruption of the human heart.


 
At 7:17 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Jeez, Anonymous can't even get through Thanksgiving without WHINING about President Blackenstein ruining his life. Give it a REST would you?
I looked up your "Hunter Alford since you didn't provide a source (all the sources are right wing sites it turns out) and it wasn't the ACA that caused the problem, the INSURANCE COMPNY conveniently lost his paperwork when the family filed for added benefits the ACA requires insurance companies to provide. So once again, the truth does not quite match your rantings.
And Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. We spared a Turkey but killed a pig with our meal of farm fresh home butchered and smoked ham. I'd go vegan if they'd give me the "meat examption".

 
At 7:19 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

The pilgrim colonies also failed because they contracted smallpox and they attributed it to witchcraft.

 
At 9:26 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

bobjam, "kibbutz".

 
At 9:50 AM, Anonymous bobjam said...

"Welcome, English. I am Samoset. Do you have beer?"

The Plymouth colony did not experience an outbreak of Smallpox until 1633. The Pilgrims arrived in the New World in 1620. The outbreak of 1633 killed 20 of the original Pilgrims, 13 years after their arrival from England.

Encyclopedia of Plague and Pestilence: From Ancient Times to the Present
Page 255
George C Kohn

There were two witchcraft trials in Plymouth Colony, decades before the more famous Salem Witchcraft trials of 1692. Both Plymouth Colony witchcraft trials ended in not guilty verdicts: in fact the accusers were fined by the court for having made false accusations.(1661 and 1671) Both trials were long after the failure of socialism (1620-1621) to provide a system that met the needs of the people failed.
Sources: http://mayflowerhistory.com/crime/
http://conservapedia.com/Plymouth_Colony

The truth is:

1. Smallpox did not play a part in the disaster the Plymouth Colony faced in its first two years in the New World.

2. Witchcraft trials did not happen in 1620-21 but 40 years later.

The near extinction of the Plymouth Colony was due to the inherent weakness and failure of socialistic/communism economic system that was used to provide for the Pilgrims. NOT smallpox and witchcraft trials.





 
At 11:26 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

The near extinction of the Plymouth Colony was due to the inherent weakness and failure of socialistic/communism economic system that was used to provide for the Pilgrims.

Pure BS.

Forty-five of the 102 immigrants died the first winter, and none from "socialism or communism".

Compared to the truly socialistic natives, the Pilgrims were bumbling amateurs at survival and meeting the needs of a community.

 
At 2:55 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Plymouth wan't the only colony in the "New world". It's the only one we hear about and people think ALL those people came here for "religious freedom" but the fact is the majority were heading way south, near what is now Virginia to be tobacco farmers. And the big "Thanksgiving feast" never reall happend the way it's been recorded by "history".

 
At 3:31 PM, Anonymous bobjam said...

44% of the immigrants died the first winter. Not because of smallpox or witchcraft trial but because they didn't raise enough food using the communal socialist method of economics.

William Bradford served as Governor of Plymouth Colony from 1620 to 1647 and chronicled in great detail everything that happened in the colony. He wrote "Of Plymouth Plantation."

There was neither private property nor division of labor.
Food was grown for the town and distributed equally amongst all.
By 1623, it was obvious the colony was barely producing enough corn to keep everyone alive. Fresh supplies from England were few and far between.
And every body hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

It failed because it rewarded the less productive as much as the more productive. It failed because members of the community found that they could do less and still get the same benefit. All of these problems arose in a very religious community in which gluttony and laziness were considered sins and drunkenness was rare. How much more would communism fail in a larger society where such problems are rampant?

"The experience that was had in this common course and condition, tried sundry years and that amongst godly and sober men, may well evince the vanity of that conceit of Plato’s and other ancients applauded by some of later times; that the taking away of property and bringing in community into a commonwealth would make them happy and flourishing; as if they were wiser than God. For this community (so far as it was) was found to breed much confusion and discontent and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort. For the young men, that were most able and fit for labour and service, did repine that they should spend their time and strength to work for other men’s wives and children without any recompense. The strong, or man of parts, had no more division of victuals and clothes than he that was weak and not able to do a quarter than the other could; this was thought injustice. The aged and graver men to be ranked and equalized in labours, victuals, clothes, etc., with the meaner and younger sort, thought it some indignity and disrespect unto them. And for men’s wives to be commanded to do service for other men, as dressing their meat, washing their clothes, etc., they deemed it a kind of slavery, neither could many husbands well brook it."
William Bradford writing from first person experience.

Solution: With weak crops and little hope of supply, the Pilgrims divided the parcels among the families and told them to grow their own food. They found that those who would pretend they couldn’t work due to infirmity, weakness or inability (sound familiar?) gladly went to work in the fields. Corn production increased dramatically and famine was averted because communism was eliminated. Capitalism, private ownership, working for your own keep, saved the colony. Not socialist economics. Once the "bumbling Pilgrims" abandoned socialism for capitalism they began to prosper. Their own words tell us this. Left wing revisionist history can not stand being exposed to the events of true history.

Has socialism worked for the Native Americans? (excluding the Vikings who were just as native Americans as anyone else before Columbus)
You bet it did, in the land of the free and the home of the braves. On Indian reservations.
They were invented to control adult warriors. They had as a goal to keep the native population in poverty and impotent.

Did the system work? You bet it did.

Has the experiment been a failure? On the contrary, it has been a success.

When was the last time you heard of a successful Indian uprising?

Are the people poor? The poorest in America.

Are they on the dole? Of course.

Socialism at it's best.

Traditionally, most Native Americans had traditional hierarchy based economies which were distinct from both capitalism and socialism. Tribes fought other tribes for land. There is no proof that they were "truly socialistic" natives.

 
At 3:33 PM, Anonymous bobjam said...

"And the big "Thanksgiving feast" never reall happend the way it's been recorded by "history""

Really,and you have proof to support that statement?

 
At 4:07 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Yes, several actual history books. I think one is called "Lies my teacher told me". Do some actual research and THEN come back. The "Thanksgiving feast" was nothing more than a normal autumn meal, and it's been turned into mythology like Washington chopping down the cherry tree or Columbus discovering America.
How about some historical PROOF of the "first thanksgiving" actually taking place? They certainly didn't eat turkey. (Mutton and venison most likely) Then you can explain to us why no one cared until Lincoln bade the last Thursday of MNov. A National day of thanks". Why did it take 200 years?

 
At 4:16 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Here's one source, but look it up yourself if you don't like this one. You'kk find the same story nearly everywhere.

http://kids.nationalgeographic.com/kids/stories/history/first-thanksgiving/

 
At 4:35 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Right Wing revision in all its hysterical idiocy.

The pilgrims landed in November.

Think about that for a second, before you spew your Right wing nut rantings about "takers" and communism killing settlers.

They could have have been bankers or Wall Street capitalists and still die in droves over winter.

Probably faster.

Capitalists profit from the labor of others. Capitalists only make money, not products and food.

Farmers, fishermen, hunters and craftsmen, not capitalists, produced anything of value to a community.

Trying to ascribe modern communism, socialism or capitalism to the settlers is false on the face of it. Your false equivalence does not stand.

In their situation there was work for everyone. They didn't rely on capitalist "job creators" to lead them to a shiny city on the hill.

It was about labor over capital. Money didn't save them.

They took care of each other. Cooperation was key to survival. That is basic. Did they adopt "Not my brother's keeper" as their principle? It was far from the extremist Right Wing core dogma of today, "every man for himself".

Has socialism worked for the Native Americans?

Can't let go of your stereotype of Indians, eh? Might makes right to your kind.

Again, they also didn't have anything near what today's economic systems present.

Socialistic principles, however,(aka "we are in this together".) worked before the White man's diseases, theft, treachery and greed drove them onto reservations.

And it does today. For many tribes, casino revenues, aka community wealth, provide food, health care and housing for the entire tribe, even the disabled.

Socialism at it's best.

 
At 4:49 PM, Anonymous Harry said...

i just wanted to say i am thankful today that i could go to Lowes and pick out a new ceiling fan from a wide variety of choices!

its just unfucking believable that the socialists want to tell me what i have to choose for a healthcare plan!

Fuck obama and fuck the redistributionists!

 
At 5:51 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

its just unfucking believable that the socialists want to tell me what i have to choose for a healthcare plan!

Yes, Harry Chuckie, it is literally unbelievable.

Sounds like you need mental health services. You're in a fit of rage and seeing imaginary socialists.

Those are insurance corporations that you choose from. Republicans and corpo-dems obstructed a public option and single payer.

Corporatists have given you your choices.

Obama is a corporatist - Ron Paul

 
At 7:39 PM, Anonymous bobjam said...

Mozart,

The only answer to all of your questions is this, Thanksgiving Day is an invention of white capitalistic, racist, men, who hate the poor and women, labor unions, are greedy never sharing anything with the poor from who they stole all of their wealth who subvert the vote of the democrats in every election, who only have them majority in the House due to some lame law passed by their forefathers who, being fortune tellers, knew a day like this would come 200 years ago, and dont pay enough in taxes.

Try these for the history of Thanksgiving Day.

www.foldvary.net/works/thanksgi.html

The event that Americans commonly call the "First Thanksgiving" was celebrated by the Pilgrims after their first harvest in the New World in 1621.[2] This feast lasted three days, and it was attended by 90 Native Americans (as accounted by attendee Edward Winslow)[3] and 53 Pilgrims.[4] The New England colonists were accustomed to regularly celebrating "thanksgivings"—days of prayer thanking God for blessings such as military victory or the end of a drought.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_%28United_States%29
Eyewitness reports will tell you the facts.

Is National Geographic or "Lies my teacher told me" your source for your statement that Smallpox and the witchcraft trials are what caused the Plymouth Colony so much trouble? On which you did no research or you would not have made such a foolish statement.

 
At 9:30 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Maybe you need to drop the sarcasm and gind new sources. You are reciting the "accepted" myth, and not the real history. Not nearly that many colonists survived that long, and they NEVER called themselves "pilgrims". George Washington never cut down a Cherry tree, Columbus never set foot in North America, and there are no Obamaphones. Oh, Santa isn't real either.

 
At 12:27 AM, Anonymous bobjam said...

Mozart1220 said...

"Maybe you need to drop the sarcasm and gind new sources."

Mozart, maybe you need to admit when you are wrong and find new sources.

"You are reciting the "accepted" myth, and not the real history"

Mozart, I am not reciting anything, I am given you source for you to check against what National Geographic told you. I even gave page numbers!

"Not nearly that many colonists survived that long"

Mozart, try to focus, what are you talking about?

"they NEVER called themselves "pilgrims". George Washington never cut down a Cherry tree, Columbus never set foot in North America"

Mozart, I never said any of the above so what's your point?

"there are no Obamaphones"

Mozart, there you go again blaming the black guy. This after you called Obama "President Blackenstein"! What kind of racist code words are you using?
"Better attack black people instead. It's the racist thing to do."

You still standing by your claims that smallpox killed off the Plymouth Colonys? Ignoring the truth that they mainly starved to death or died due to malnutrition because of the failure of their socialistic economy to provide for their food needs.






 
At 5:32 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Bobjam, if you want to keep believeing in the myth, go ahead. It doesn't do me any harm. And the other things I listed were MYTHS that conservatives keep promoting. The "president Blackenstien" comment was what you conservatives think of Obama not me. Jeez...can you jeep up even for a minute? Does EVERYTHING have to be explained to you?

 
At 7:41 AM, Anonymous bobjam said...

"Does EVERYTHING have to be explained to you?"

one word for you Smallpox

"president Blackenstien" Huh? the only person I've ever heard use that term was you Mozart.

"Would you care to explain"?

 
At 9:54 AM, Anonymous Tyrone Witherspoons said...

With weak crops and little hope of supply, the Pilgrims divided the parcels among the families and told them to grow their own food.

They found that those who would pretend they couldn’t work due to infirmity, weakness or inability (sound familiar?) gladly went to work in the fields.

hey bobjam,

You mean if you didn't want to learn how to fish, no social service would deliver fresh fish to your door? Sounds like that community was progressively leaning backwards not forward!

And Dave Dubya was full of shit distorting the facts about smallpox and witch hunts which occurred years later. you got him! Dave Dubya is a big bullshitter just like our President who couldn't run a McDonalds never mind a country!

 
At 10:09 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...


Well, well, if it isn't "Tyrone Chuckie" crawling out from under his rock. Still blinded by the light.

And Dave Dubya was full of shit distorting the facts about smallpox and witch hunts which occurred years later. you got him!

Completely WRONG and backwards, sport. Can you show us those distorted facts? Oh, that's right, you don't answer questions. All your hate can allow is groundless accusations and lies.

Thanks for being consistently wrong and hateful.

Look at what the Pope said, Chuckie.

While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control. A new tyranny is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules... To all this we can add widespread corruption and self-serving tax evasion, which have taken on worldwide dimensions.

Gonna call the Pope a commie too? Rush tried. You better get on the bandwagon like a good authoritarian follower.

Or ya still Chicken Chuckie? Buck, buck, buckaww.

LOL!

 
At 5:53 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

"The autumn celebration in late 1621 that has become known as "The First Thanksgiving" was not known as such to the Pilgrims. The Pilgrims did recognize a celebration known as a "Thanksgiving", which was a solemn ceremony of praise and thanks to God for a congregation's good fortune. The first such Thanksgiving as the Pilgrims would have called it did not occur until 1623, in response to the good news of the arrival of additional colonists and supplies. That event probably occurred in July and consisted of a full day of prayer and worship and probably very little revelry.

The event now commemorated in the United States at the end of November each year is more properly termed a "harvest festival". The original festival was probably held in early October 1621 and was celebrated by the 53 surviving Pilgrims, along with Massasoit and 90 of his men."

--- Wikipedia

53 survivors.

 
At 8:40 AM, Anonymous Smokey Lagumski said...

Dave Dubya,

I agree that our society has all but broken down. But I blame the Left for that. They pit us against each other because they know that it is human nature. "Divide and conquer" is probably a very old saying.

They pit blacks against whites, whites against hispanics, men against women, gays against straights, employers against employees, consumers against corporations, etc. etc. There is this constant marxian need for STRUGGLE. That is the heart of the Left - struggle and discord. Because when there is struggle and discord, they can provide "solutions", which means more central planning by the "elite" in government.

Our self-proclaimed "elite" say we need to pass laws to find out what is in them. How sad for our country to elect such incompetent people. Would the founders of the US have signed the "Declaration of Independence" without reading it? Would you sign a contract to buy a house without reading it?

Google "bottom up, top down inside out" and Van Jones. Google "Cloward and Piven strategy".

The Left is about destruction; we are witnessing the attempted destruction of the world's best healthcare system, but there is a good chance it is has backfired. If ObamaCare was so good, why would the Employer Mandate and now possibly the Individual Mandate be pushed out past the next election? BECAUSE THE POLLS SHOW OBAMACARE IS A DISASTER AND THE DEMOCRATS BIGGEST "STRUGGLE" IS NOW TO KEEP THEIR LYING ASSES IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE. The fault of the right, both politicians and citizens, is that too many of us believed that the Left was arguing from good intentions. They were not and are not (unless you are talking about real wide-eyed naive youngsters who are in the lower echelons of the Left, i.e. the LIFS (Low InFormation voters who believe in lots of free stuff).

There's hope against the Socialist/Communists and their unicorn dream of utopia. The recent Swiss referendum to cap executive pay at 12 times the lowest paid employee's salary has failed, rather dramatically, with 65 percent of the population voting against it. Hopefully this will be a signal to the rest of the world that this is a bad idea.

 
At 9:38 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Wow Smokey, you are so far off the mark I don't knw where to start. Let's just say it's clear you get all your info from Fox news. We are FAR from having the "best HC sytem in the world" unless of course you are rich. Otherwise even if you have insurance a big issue like cancer could bankrupt most people. We are the ONLY civillized nation with "for profit" health care.
Liberals are not dividing us, people like YOU are under the guidence of Fox news and peple Like Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.
Who is stealing all the nations wealth and BLAMING it on the poor?
And the only people using the word "elite" in refference to Liberals are conservayives, which is funny because I don't think you know what the word means. I want an "elite" quarterback on my team. I want "elite" doctors in my hospital. I want "elite" statesmen running the country. You make it sound like an insult, but given the candidates the GOP has put forward the last 30 years I can see where "elite" would threaten you.

 
At 9:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/democrats-brace-for-more-bad-obamacare-news/ November 30, 2013

The political damage to Democrats has been growing since the HealthCare.gov debacle started. In the generic ballot poll—the crude but talismanic survey question used to test the relative health of the two parties—Republicans have closed a seven-point deficit they had after the government shutdown. Republicans are now ever so slightly favored over Democrats—42 to 41—in the average of polls.

This shift is worrying to Democrats. Members of Congress and party strategists believe their problem is not just the broken promises and issues created by the site but also their party’s slow response time. Democrats were caught flat-footed on the expiration of the promise that if you like your insurance, you can keep it, period. Voters wanted to see them on the case, trying to fix the situation. By the time the president apologized and then offered a "fix" that allowed insurance companies to permit people to keep their plans, the political damage had already been done.

 
At 10:44 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Chuckie Legumski,

Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving, buddy. Thanks for your thoughtful post. I really appreciate your wanting to share your deeply held beliefs, light on facts as they are.

I blame the Left for that.

Imagine that. Of course you do.

They pit us against each other

Unlike the Right, who accuses and blame the Left of great evil and destruction. And this simple assertion is “proof” of evil intent? Good thing we have FOX(R) and Limbaugh to unite us.

There is this constant marxian need for STRUGGLE.

And this is your “proof” that liberals are commies?

Our self-proclaimed "elite" say we need to pass laws to find out what is in them.

So a single out of context quote by Pelosi is “proof” this claim now applies to multiple laws?

The Left is about destruction

Quite an accusation. Is this because they opposed the Right’s war in Iraq? Oh, you mean mandated health insurance...like the Swiss have.

THE POLLS SHOW OBAMACARE IS A DISASTER

So has this “disaster” cost more, and killed many, many more Americans than Bush’s war in Iraq?

too many of us believed that the Left was arguing from good intentions. They were not

And this accusation is the “proof” that liberals are not just commies, but evil commies?

hope against the Socialist/Communists and their unicorn dream of utopia. The recent Swiss referendum...

The Swiss? You mean the people with the health insurance mandate? Isn’t that “communism”? You’d better warn them.

What if the Swiss referendum to cap executive pay at 12 times the lowest paid employee was raised to 50 times the lowest paid worker? How about 100 times the lowest paid worker? Do you think the vote would be different then?

I bet you 10,000 bucks it would.

Meanwhile the Walton Heirs have more wealth than the entire bottom 40% of Americans combined. You want to cut food stamps for the needy so their taxes can be lower?

And in the US, the CEO-to-worker compensation ratio in 2012 was 272.9-to-1 or 202.3-to-1, depending on the measurement of options.

That’s whole lot of “free speech” money to influence elections and buy politicians. But you say liberals and the poor must have more influence to impose their “destruction”, right?

And how about the pay increases for the working class? Well, somebody has to sacrifice, right? Maybe having one’s job off-shored creates a certain “struggle”, ya think? Maybe working for low pay at Wal-Mart and needing assistance is a struggle, right? Didn’t I see a food bin for donations to Wal-Mart workers?

(Low InFormation voters who believe in lots of free stuff).

And can you show us who these people are? Can you tell us who’s getting “Lot’s of free stuff”?

We know you don’t answer any questions. That’s fine. Wanting answers is the nature of an open mind. You have your beliefs and you cannot question them. You don’t need answers, so why should anyone else, right?

You also cannot consider other perspectives because you are as certain of your political beliefs as you are of your religious beliefs. Since only you know the truth, that means you must regard the views of others as false and unworthy of evaluation. This is how an authoritarian personality operates. He’s also very scornful of those who don’t agree with him or are “different” in certain ways.

We know you can’t change and can’t answer questions, but I’m happy to show you at least one low information voter who’s angry, resentful of others, and Living In Fear (LIF) of imaginary liberal commies.

He’s in your mirror.

 
At 10:53 AM, Anonymous RonRonDoRon said...

The hottest current talking point of the left is that warning of the impending ObamaCare disaster is equivalent to "rooting for failure." If I warn someone that they are driving the wrong way on a one-way street, I guess that means I don't want them to succeed in getting to their destination.

You just can't win with these Socialist Utopians chasing their unicorn dreams!

Remember libs, just like "The Messiah" said elections have consequences, your bill ObamaCare which you own 100%, has consequences for the now bed wetting Democrats in next years election!

 
At 11:06 AM, Anonymous Philip S Horton said...

When we have to pass it to see what's in it, that is not what I call good law making. The law was designed to grow government to cement democrat party rule, and if the law was halfway decent it would have worked.

As it is, it will cause extreme stress about the most important aspect of life to millions of citizens, health. I've never accused democrats of being smart, but if they don't wise-up and sink this God awful law, they will cease to be a party at all.

If Obama had integrity he would resign, but if he had integrity, he would not have lied.

 
At 11:15 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Indeed, "Rooting for failure" has been the GOP/McConnell/Limbaugh cheer since Obama was elected.

Just a fact.

Obama lied, nobody died = "no integrity".

Bush lied, thousands died = "integrity".

"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."

“I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace.” - George W. Bush

 
At 11:29 AM, Anonymous Smokey Lagumski said...

You Progressives fail to note that even when Obamacare is fully implemented there will still be 31 million Americans without health insurance according to the nonpartisan CBO. So Obamacare wrecks the health care of the majority of people to provide insurance for less than half of those who aren't covered. Brilliant.

There is a big difference between health insurance and health CARE. People still have to find a doctor to treat them.

Obamacare adds tens of millions of patients to the system but doesn't add a single healthcare provider. It will have just the opposite effect on providers who get paid less so there will be fewer of them. The Cleveland Clinic has already laid off 3,000 workers due to Obamacare. The law does hire IRS agents, however, to enforce the various mandates. Under Obamacare expect higher costs, longer waits, more confusion, and poorer care. This will eventually affect everyone. Pray you don't get sick.

 
At 11:38 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dave Dubya, it is really sad when someone does not know whether another is lying. The truth is not an opinion. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but the truth stands strong.

When President Obama lied his poll number went down. When anybody lies they lose credibility.

When you defend Obama's lie about being able to keep your health care plan, period, you lose credibility.

You appear to have lost your ability to tell what is true and what is not.

 
At 12:20 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Progressives fail to note...

Note this:

Conned-servatives fail to note Why 31 million people will remain uninsured under ObamaCare:

Undocumented workers will make up a growing share of the uninsured... Republicans in red states, many of whom have bashed ObamaCare as a federal takeover of the health care system, have chipped away at the law by refusing to launch their own exchanges (in those cases, the federal government will simply do it for them). GOP-led state legislatures in 21 states have also declined to expand Medicaid under the law, potentially leaving out millions who were supposed to be brought under the ObamaCare umbrella. Those states include 11 of the 15 states with the highest uninsured populations starting at the top: Texas, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Michigan, Arizona, Virginia, Louisiana, South Carolina, Tennessee, Missouri, and Indiana).

Next lie:

The Cleveland Clinic has already laid off 3,000 workers due to Obamacare.

Oh, really? Show us. We could ask for documentation, but we know that won’t happen. Why? Because it’s a lie.

Note Obamacare Isn't Really Taking Away Jobs: Cleveland Clinic Edition

The prestigious system says budget cuts have more to do with the need to find efficiencies. "We felt health-care reform was absolutely necessary," a spokeswoman said.


Claiming false assertions and accusations as truth are all you got. No verification or documented evidence are required for Cult Bubble beliefs.

Obamacare wrecks the health care of the majority of people. Cleveland Clinic has already laid off 3,000 workers due to Obamacare.


Lies. Plain and simple. We could ask for documentation, but we know that won’t happen. Why? Because they’re lies.

sad when someone does not know whether another is lying.

Yes it is. I noted the above lies. Your beliefs reflect your buying into those lies. You should figure that out sometime, but you won’t listen to anybody but your cult of Right Wing propagandists.

When you defend Obama's lie...

Another false accusation and lie. I said Obama lied, nobody died. That’s just a fact, not defense of a lie. Bet you 10,000 bucks you still defend Bush’s lies.

You appear to have lost your ability to tell what is true and what is not.

Only to a person holding cult beliefs that he cannot question.

 
At 4:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Maybe working for low pay at Wal-Mart and needing assistance is a struggle, right? Didn’t I see a food bin for donations to Wal-Mart workers? "

Are the Wal-Mart workers forced at gun point to work there? If they don't like the pay, then quit, no one is forcing them to work there.

Go apply for a job at the Post Office or Department of Motor Vehicles, or better yet move to France where the socialist utopian dream has been achieved.

 
At 4:48 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Are the Wal-Mart workers forced at gun point to work there?...
Ah, and there's that famous "con-servative compassion again.

So you concede my point. Thanks.

 
At 3:40 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Who is stealing all the nations wealth?"

The fucking federal government, that's who!!

 

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