Monday, February 20, 2012

The FDR Library Revisited

The author chillin' with the Roosevelts
`
"Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred. I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it, the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it, these forces met their master."

-Franklin D. Roosevelt, during the 1936 campaign

I've written be
fore on this electronic trash bin of Left Wing propaganda about the occasional pilgrimages I make to the Franklin Delano Roosevelt Library and Museum in Hyde Park, NY. I find the place therapeutic. Whenever I get to feeling depressed about this country (which is only when I am not sound asleep and not intoxicated) I tell myself that I need to visit there. Fortunately I live slightly less than forty miles from the place so getting there is not as time-consuming a prospect for me as it might be for you. I took yet another of many trips there on Saturday the eleventh of February. This time I brought along my friend Lori DeGeorge. It had the desired effect. When the time came to leave I was feeling much better about America than I was feeling when I walked in.

Here are two brief paragraphs from a piece I wrote in 2007:

"It was said of him at the time of his death on April 12, 1945, 'Although he never regained the use of his legs - much as he wanted to; much as he tried - he taught a crippled nation how to walk again.'

He was the pampered son of privilege from Hyde Park, NY whose battle with polio, begun in the summer of 1921, ingrained into his soul a deep and abiding empathy for the suffering of others that had
previously been somewhat lacking in him. Through the development of a series of radical, revolutionary programs - unparalleled in history - which his administration brought into the main stream of American social engineering, he was able to usher millions of regular people into the ranks of a middle class that had not even existed before he took the oath of office on March 4, 1933. It is now almost a cliche but it is as true as the rising sun: He saved capitalism by 'tempering its excesses.' The people would elect him to an unprecedented four terms. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was - beyond a doubt - the greatest president in American history."

My opinions of the man and his presidency have not altered a molecule since I wrote those words five years ago. If anything they have only been strengthened. He was as good as they get. When he died someone remarked that a century into the future, people would get down on their knees and thank God for Franklin D. Roosevelt. I can't speak for the people of 2045, but sixty-seven years after his passing - two thirds of a century - this person is very grateful indeed. And take into consideration that I didn't even live through that era. When I was born he had been dead for thirteen years.

And he has been gone for a very long time. My mother will be eighty-one on August fifth. On the day Franklin Roosevelt died she was not yet in high school. Maybe that is related to the reason why the legacy of the New Deal is on life support these days. There aren't many people alive today who remember what life was like in the United States before FDR - and those who do remember were mere toddlers when the stock market crashed in October of 1929. It has been said that those who refuse to remember their history are doomed to repeat it. It's so true. Just look out your window onto America's economic landscape. It was never supposed to get like this again. Why did it? What happened?

The people of this country forgot about Franklin Delano Roosevelt. That's what happened. Show most Americans a photograph of his smiling face and they will not even be able to identify him. That's gratitude for you! And if the spin doctors for the plutocracy have their way, his name (and good works) will be eradicated from America's consciousness forever.

They've already started with their onslaught of lies and misinformation. Since there are few left who remember and loved the living, breathing FDR, and who can attest to what he meant to the working people of the United States, now is the perfect time for the far right to commence with the assassination of his character - to demean everything he ever stood for; in other words: progressive policies. It is now a common right wing tactical talking point to preface the term "New Deal" by using words such as "the failure of" or "the disastrous". It's starting to work, too. There are people out there who see President Roosevelt, not as being the architect of a new American social structure, but rather as a contemporary of John Dillinger.

Anoth
er curious point of emphasis the conservatives love to scream about is the fact that Franklin Roosevelt didn't quite champion the cause of African Americans during the years he lived in the White House - as if Herbert Hoover ever did! While it can't be denied that Roosevelt was fairly passive publicly on the issue of civil rights, privately it was another matter. What should not be forgotten is all of the good work his wife did for the cause of racial understanding during those twelve years. It can be said without a hint of exaggeration that up to that time, Eleanor Roosevelt did more for the rights of black people in this country than any and every president since Abraham Lincoln. And she did it all with her husband's blessings. They each had differing and well-defined roles to play. He was the pragmatic politician. She was America's heart and conscience. Each played their respective role masterfully - if not always to perfection.

Of course, had I been elected president in 1932, I would n
ot have been as passive as Roosevelt was with regard to the equal rights of all Americans. I would have been out in the national spotlight demanding an end to racial segregation everywhere. The only problem is that I would have been a one term president (that's assuming I wouldn't have been impeached - or lynched). Back in those days the Democratic party was chock-full of racist Dixiecrats. A generation later they would flee - like diseased rats - into the loving arms of the GOP.

It's sad to say, but the world Franklin Roosevelt inhabited was not the same one that President Lyndon Johnson encountered thirty years later. The Voting and Civil Rights Acts could not have been passed in the thirties and forties - and it is sheer fo
lly for anyone to suggest (as some have) that he could have done so. He couldn't even get a federal anti-lynching law passed. The proposed bill was killed in the senate. But While Franklin might have appeared passive, with his quiet encouragement Eleanor was helping pave the road to equality in this country. It's a road that still has more-than-a-few miles of paving left to go.

The Civil Rights Movem
ent in America was born on April 9, 1939 - Easter Sunday. That was the day that Mrs. Roosevelt made the arrangements for African American contralto Marian Anderson to perform a concert on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial after the Daughters of the American Revolution denied her the opportunity to sing at Constitution Hall because of the color of her skin. Eleanor Roosevelt, a life-long member of the DAR, resigned in disgust at that moment. I hate to do this to you again but I need to quote something else I wrote a few years ago. Here goes:

"Almost everyone is under the impression that the modern civil rights movement began on that December afternoon in 1955 when an exhausted Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on a Montgomery, Alabama bus to a white man. They're off by almost seventeen years. December 1, 1955 merely marked the day the child went out into the world for the very first time. April 9, 1939 was the moment she breathed her first breath."

Damn! Best paragraph I ever wrote! Wasn't that a humdinger?

On that sacred Easter Sunday of 1939 under the statue of the great emancipator, as Marian Anderson sang Schubert's Ave Maria before an integrated audience of seventy-five thousand people - and millions more across the land via the new medium of radio - who among the multitudes gathered would have dared to dream that they were bearing witness to the beginning of a long chain of events that would lead to the inauguration of the first African American president seventy years later?

The next time one of these "spokespersons" for the extreme right tries to co
nvince you that Franklin D. Roosevelt hated black people, recognize it for what it is: a bald-faced lie.
In the years Roosevelt was president there was a massive political migration of African Americans who bolted the "party of Lincoln" for the Democrats. That is no mere coincidence. 

The most obvious stain on the legacy of President Roosevelt is the incarceration of Japanese citizens during the second world war. He didn't instigate what happened but it happened all the same. He could have put a stop to it and yet he caved in. But Roosevelt was just as guilty as the people he led. There was no mass outrage over the imprisonment of Japanese Americans in 1942. That outrage would only make itself known after a half century of historical hindsight.

Still, after all is debated, we're a better country because eighty years ago Franklin Delano Roosevelt sought and won the office of the presidency. As I stated earlier, very few people are alive today who have a conscious memory of what life was like in America for ordinary people before the New Deal ushered in a great new society for this country. Because of FDR, people began to see their government as a partner. It's been one of my missions to make sure that my generation understands this. They've pretty much forgotten that it was Roosevelt's liberal policies that saved America. Today many see the government as their enemy - and in some cases that's the truth. It doesn't have to be that way. We should strive for the perfection of government - not its abolition.

While we were
visiting, Lori and I took a tour of the mansion where Franklin Delano Roosevelt was born on the night of January 29, 1882, the place that he called "home" for all of his sixty-three years. I could definitely feel the "Frankie vibe" as I call it. It is a beautiful old house and it is exactly as it was on the last night he ever slept there - including a glass of milk and a half-eaten tuna sandwich that he left on the dining room table. On our way out, we paused for a moment of reflective meditation in the Rose Garden where Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt today sleep side-by-side. It's one of the most peaceful places on earth; the perfect spot to reflect upon where America has been, where it is, and where it may be heading. I just might pass this way again. In fact, I'm planning on it.


By the way, I was just kidding about the glass of milk and tuna sandwich. That wouldn't be quite sanitary. It's a very clean place.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net


ABOUT THE PHOTOS:

The photograph of the author at the top of this nasty, piece of commie diatribe was taken by Lori DeGeorge. The photograph of Lori and that same America-bashing, French-loving "elitist" writer was taken on the South lawn of the R
oosevelt mansion overlooking the Hudson River. The photographer was a very polite tourist from Ireland named Chris. Thank you, Chris.


SUGGESTED READING:

No Ordinary Time
by Doris Kearns-Goodwin

A compelling look at life inside the White House when Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt lived there.

`
Here are some links to three additional pieces I've written through the years on the subject of Franklin Roosevelt:

http://tomdegan.blogspot.com/2007/09/franklin-d-roosevelts-endangered-legacy.html

http://tomdegan.blogspot.com/2009/03/weekend-at-frankllins.html

http://tomdegan.blogspot.com/2010/11/obama-can-learn-from-fdr.html
 


"So first of all let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...."
`
Aw, hell, y
ou know the rest of it.

AFTERTHOUGHT:

Today is the fiftieth anniversary of the day an American astronaut orbited the earth for the first time. It is also the first news event that I have a conscious memory of. The second was the death of Pope John XXIII the following year. I remember quite clearly that I was watching a Yogi Bear cartoon on Channel 5 when it was interrupted to cover the lift off. At that moment in my life, preempting my cartoons was not a wise thing to do. To this day I have never forgiven John Glenn. I never will. On February 20, 1962 he incurred my eternal wrath.

DAMN YOU, JOHN!


BREAKING NEWS 2/21/12:
It has just been announced that Bill Murray will be playing the role of Franklin Roosevelt in a film called "Hyde Park on Hudson" that is scheduled to be released on December 7. That's Bill in the photo above in costume as FDR. My all-time favorite comic actor portraying my all-time favorite president? I cannot wait!

For more recent postings on this site, please go to the link below:

"The Rant" by Tom Degan

Progressive political commentary with the bitter pill of satire.

58 Comments:

At 11:48 AM, Blogger Darlene said...

I was 20 years old when FDR died and there was great sadness in the country. Believe it or not, many Republicans loved him too. He saved the country. I am old enough to remember how terrible the Great Depression was. I could fill a page with the tragedies played out on a daily basis before Roosevelt got men back to work. To demean him and his accomplishments is despicable.

But then, the Republicans are masters at rewriting history and at disinformation.

 
At 12:10 PM, Blogger charles moore said...

Thanks for the reminder that Eleanor arranged for Marion Anderson to sing at the Lincoln memorial, a fact too many of the younger generation is not aware of. It is also worth noting that Eleanor resigned her membership from the DAR in protest of their not allowing Anderson to sing in Constitution Hall. An interesting side light to this is that years later many people said that one of their most vivid memories of the occasion was the fact that Anderson was wearing a fur coat as this was still a point in time when very few African americans could afford one.

 
At 12:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>Of course, had I been elected president...

Hell, even I might vote for you.

 
At 5:43 PM, Blogger Just the Facts! said...

Tom,

Let me add to your book list
The Forgotten Man" by Amity Shlaes.

It points out the failures of Hoover and why his actions failed. Makes for interesting reading. I believe it has value for a liberal reader.

 
At 6:37 PM, Blogger JeannetteLS said...

I am 59... I am on disability for the third time in my life--worked my way OFF it the first two times.

I was penniless for eighteen months while I waited for SOCIAL SECURITY, the income that is my lifeline now.

I think disability payment came later, but that doesn't matter. I thank him all the same. And his example. When I was told when I was twenty-eight that I would never work again, I DID think of him. And I beat the odds. When I was told the same thing at 35, he was there in my head again.

Now? I don't know. But I'm not giving up.

I don't care about any moral discussions of their personal lives. They did more as a couple in positions of power than any other American couple, I think.

Thank you for your radical socialist pinko left wingnut posts. I'm sure I left something out.

 
At 7:04 PM, Anonymous Cornbread Jones said...

Tom,

Thats a nice picture of you and FDR. We should thank FDR and Elanor for helping to make the wonderful nanny state. FDR was a great man who helped build a really big safety net for da peeps!

My unemployment has run out, but I then I just went over to the Social Security department to claim I am mentally ill. Now I can get SSDI. Only in America (and maybe Greece)!

Why fish when da dems and RINOs throw you free fish?

 
At 8:33 PM, Anonymous Paul Madryga said...

Lovely bit of writing, Tom - keep the torch burning, mate...

 
At 12:47 AM, Anonymous Ron Baldwin said...

Tom,

Congratulations on an insightful reminder of the greatness of FDR. I was born in 1934 and I remember him well. He was larger than life. The book, No Ordinary Time, is a treasured volume in my library.

 
At 7:14 PM, Anonymous George Jefferson's Guardian said...

Dave is up to his old tricks like Hugo Chavez on his blog. No free speech.

I bet he would sniff Hugo CHavez's crack if given the chance!

 
At 9:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

FDR would be pleased with this bit of information.

This year’s Index of Dependence on Government presented startling findings about the sharp increase of Americans who rely on the federal government for housing, food, income, student aid or other assistance.

Another eye-popping number was the percentage of Americans who don’t pay income taxes, which now accounts for nearly half of the U.S. population. Meanwhile, most of that population receives generous federal benefits.

“One of the most worrying trends in the Index is the coinciding growth in the non-taxpaying public,” wrote Heritage authors Bill Beach and Patrick Tyrrell. “The percentage of people who do not pay federal income taxes, and who are not claimed as dependents by someone who does pay them, jumped from 14.8 percent in 1984 to 49.5 percent in 2009.”

That means 151.7 million Americans paid nothing in 2009. By comparison, 34.8 million tax filers paid no taxes in 1984.

The rapid growth of Americans who don’t pay income taxes is particularly alarming for the fate of the American form of government, Beach and Tyrrell warned. Coupled with higher spending on government programs, it is already proving to be a major fiscal challenge.

“This trend should concern everyone who supports America’s republican form of government,” Beach and Tyrrell wrote. “If the citizens’ representatives are elected by an increasing percentage of voters who pay no income tax, how long will it be before these representatives respond more to demands for yet more entitlements and subsidies from non-payers than to the pleas of taxpayers to exercise greater spending prudence?”

 
At 2:30 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Playing off of the Anon post above...

I think the "great experiment" of America will end up far differently that our founders envisioned.

"A democratic government is the only one in which those who vote for a tax can escape the obligation to pay it."

- Alexis de Tocqueville



"Democracy is the road to socialism."

- Karl Marx

 
At 2:55 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Gee, Anonymous, please share with us who publishes the "Index of Dependence on Government".

 
At 6:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gee Jefferson's Guardian, why don't you find out for yourself.
You've heard of Google haven't you?

 
At 9:54 PM, Anonymous George Jefferson's Guardian said...

Tom,

I think they should change FDR's statue so that his arms are held out to hold big babies and one of his breasts are exposed. Then you, JG, and Dave Dubya could have your pictures taken laying in FDRs arms and suckling on his teet.

JG,

You spend so much time creating long winded socialist posts on your blog that nobody comments on, yet you can't spend a few seconds to google "Index of Dependence on Government". You are a putz.

Dave Dubya,

You have very thin skin and need to grow a set of balls. If this isn't politically correct speech, too bad. Go file a hate crime with one of Obama's Czars. Keep preaching that those who believe in what the Founders of America believed are Nazi's and "neo fascists." It only shows you have your head stuffed way up your arse hole.

 
At 10:33 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

One of the newer Big Lies by the radical Right has been to rewrite history and dupe their cult into thinking FDR was opposed to unions.

I wonder how long the true believers of this cult will peddle this lie.

Ignorance is strength. Orwell knew about totalitarians. He also understood their need for the "Two Minute Hate".

"I welcome their hatred." Thank you, FDR.

 
At 6:45 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, you asked...

"...Jefferson's Guardian, why don't you find out for yourself. You've heard of Google haven't you?"

Absolutely! I did research your idiotic claim, most assuredly, but thought Tom's readership would enjoy knowing where the Reich-wing bullshit originated.

Are you too embarrassed to reveal your sources?

 
At 8:23 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The 2012 election results will be between those who vote for a living and those who work for a living.


David and Jefferson's. If the statics about the percent of people who depend on the federal government for housing, food, income, student aid or other assistance are wrong because of it's source, then instead of attacking that source, why don't you come up with a source that proves this report wrong?
Crickets, more crickets.

 
At 9:55 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

"In a typical year, roughly 35-40 percent of households have no net federal income liability; in 2007, the figure was 37.9 percent. [8] In 2009, however, two factors combined to cause a large, temporary spike in the share of Americans with no net federal income tax liability — the recession, which reduced many people’s incomes, and several temporary tax cuts that have now expired. The 51 percent figure reflects these temporary factors."

-exerpt from Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

The CBPP takes issue with conclusions that the Heritage foundation came to based on the information, but the facts of the Heritage article are spot on.

 
At 1:45 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, it's as Harley A. explained when he cited how the "CBPP takes issue with conclusions that the Heritage foundation came to based on the information".

Personally, I take issue with any conclusion that's based upon "analysis" from the Heritage Foundation. It's an extreme right-wing policy think-tank, which I consider just another untruthful propaganda tool of radical conservatism.

You must too. Otherwise, you wouldn't have intentionally omitted the authorship, and then squirmed when I asked for your source.

 
At 2:30 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

JG - do you believe in a person's right to vote regardless of their level of tax contribution? In other words, should someone who does not work, is on food stamps and/or other gov't aid, and paying no income tax be allowed to vote in your opinion? Not trying to bait you - honest question...

I believe that when the founders expected "no taxation without representation", the reverse was implied also.

 
At 4:34 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Harley A., surprisingly, you asked me...

"...do you believe in a person's right to vote regardless of their level of [federal] tax contribution?"

If you'll indulge me, please allow me to answer your question with a question: Do you believe a person's level of taxable income, and the subsequent amount of taxes he or she actually pays, should determine his or her level of protected constitutional rights?

 
At 5:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JG, why don't just be honest, unless a report comes from an approved left wing source, you simply choose to stick you head in the sand and not believe it. But, like what wrong with the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, is that too a "extreme right-wing" think tank?

The question for you is still there, provide a report that disproves the one I posted is wrong.
The fact that you haven't but instead continue to attack the source tells all the readers of this blog that you either are:

1. afraid check else where cause you know the report is true.

2. don't care if the report is true cause this is what you want.

3.too lazy to check if it's the truth as it's easier to deflect or discredit the source.

4.see nothing wrong with the findings of the report, but just don't want them known.

5. hope to continue to deflect hoping the true of the post will be lost when Tom starts a new subject.

6.Wish the % of Americans who depend on the federal government for housing, food, income, student aid or other assistance was higher than 49.5%.

Since Obama said American are getting soft, maybe it's no surprise that 49% of us relies on Govt. instead of themsleves.

The 2012 election results will be decided by those who vote for a living and those who work for a living.

 
At 7:09 PM, Anonymous Cornbread Jones said...

Hey Jeffersons Guardian,

Do you think people who are recieving SSDI (Social Security Disability Insurance) because they have claimed to be mentally ill be allowed to vote?

i hope you be on my side. I want my SSDI and I want to vote for the democrats who run the plantation who throw me the free fish! No skin off my ass if someone else is paying the bill.

 
At 9:06 PM, Anonymous John said...

To explain the 51%, watch...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

 
At 9:34 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

JG, you asked "Do you believe a person's level of taxable income, and the subsequent amount of taxes he or she actually pays, should determine his or her level of protected constitutional rights?"

Nope. Denying right to vote based on said criteria would not violate any consitutional protection.

 
At 11:42 PM, Anonymous Jan Marfyak said...

Hey, Cornbread and Anonymous, why do you always revert to type? First you slap out some melarky and then when you get a response, you attack the responder and not the issue raised.

As for government and your criticism, the fact that you were most likely born in a hospital (with federal and state health regulations in place), that you probably had a public education and are today protected by local and state police and fire and more broadly by the military bureaucracy should evoke some positives about governments' role in our democracy.

And then, when you are old and infirm, government is there to help vets and non-vets through their elder years.

I remember FDR and his wonderful wife who I had the pleasure of meeting with in the fifties (four hours no less). She did much for our Nation and the people who are its strength.

She was villified and laughed at but the world will remember her. I wonder if the world will remember either of you.

Note: God article, Tom. And your companion is sure pretty.

 
At 12:08 AM, Blogger Auntie D said...

Beautifully written Tom. This should be a front page headline showing what has been done and how our country was before the twits took over. The difference in caring and attitude is overwhelming...FDR and Eleanor helped to bring our country forward and now the GOP is trying to put us back in the dark ages. Unreal.

 
At 3:45 AM, Blogger Tom Degan said...

Thanks for that link, John. I've seen that film before and I highly recommend it, folks. A tad long but worth every second of your time.

 
At 4:00 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Harley A., you forget (or maybe you weren't aware), that the clause "no taxation without representation" is nowhere to be found in the U.S. Constitution. However, the Fifteenth Amendment does say:

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


Nowhere, in Section I, are the words "not to be denied or abridged...based upon amount of taxes paid."

Would you agree?

 
At 4:48 AM, Anonymous John said...

>"Democracy is the road to socialism." - Karl Marx

...apparently, Karl was wrong about this. In the United States, it has been the road to fascism. Of course, we don't have a real democracy. Perhaps this no longer matters as after generations of corporate media and 'education presidents' we no longer have intelligent voters. Mission accomplished...

 
At 7:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jan Marfyak,
You got it wrong, I presented info, JG attacked the source, I asked him to instead of attacking the my source, present info that would prove my info wrong. So far JG, has not shown what I posted to be wrong, he has only attacked the source of the information. Here is what I posted in case you missed it.

This year’s Index of Dependence on Government presented startling findings about the sharp increase of Americans who rely on the federal government for housing, food, income, student aid or other assistance.

Another eye-popping number was the percentage of Americans who don’t pay income taxes, which now accounts for nearly half of the U.S. population. Meanwhile, most of that population receives generous federal benefits.

“One of the most worrying trends in the Index is the coinciding growth in the non-taxpaying public,” wrote Heritage authors Bill Beach and Patrick Tyrrell. “The percentage of people who do not pay federal income taxes, and who are not claimed as dependents by someone who does pay them, jumped from 14.8 percent in 1984 to 49.5 percent in 2009.”

That means 151.7 million Americans paid nothing in 2009. By comparison, 34.8 million tax filers paid no taxes in 1984.

The rapid growth of Americans who don’t pay income taxes is particularly alarming for the fate of the American form of government, Beach and Tyrrell warned. Coupled with higher spending on government programs, it is already proving to be a major fiscal challenge.

“This trend should concern everyone who supports America’s republican form of government,” Beach and Tyrrell wrote. “If the citizens’ representatives are elected by an increasing percentage of voters who pay no income tax, how long will it be before these representatives respond more to demands for yet more entitlements and subsidies from non-payers than to the pleas of taxpayers to exercise greater spending prudence?”


Hey David and Jeff, where's you information showing this to be incorrect???

This will be the 4th time JG has been asked to present something to counter this info, so far just crickets.

 
At 9:20 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

JG -

Of course I did not think "no taxation without representation" was included in the US Constitution. My original intent was to stay at a philosophical level.

I would agree with your analysis. But, you fail to continue and explain that these rights are then laid out in the succeeding articles. Three or four of them mention rights associated with voting. In fact, Section 2 of the 14th Ammendment seems to indicate that some states may have provisions for which a man may have been excluded from the right to vote. And this clause explains what to do in that case. Later, we insure that sex and race are not used as reasons. And, then th e poll tax being revoked. It never mentions that a person cannot be denied the right if they do not contribute, but are rather wards of the state. That seems unwise to me. You are welcome to your opinion, of course.

 
At 12:42 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Since millionaires and billionaires have most of the right to "free speech" by money anyway, maybe it would be best if only the wealthy have the right to vote too...

 
At 1:33 PM, Anonymous John said...

Dave, I believe you have just stated the crux of the problem.

The vote does however provide some illusion of choice and control to the masses...

 
At 3:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since millionaires and billionaires have most of the right to "free speech" by money anyway, maybe it would be best if only the wealthy have the right to vote too...@ Dave D

Unless you are liberal millionaire or billionaire. Right.

 
At 5:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey JG,since you're an expert on every thing, when are you going to share with us the information you have to disprove my post about the percent of American's (49.5 percent in 2009) who do not pay federal income taxes, and who are not claimed as dependents by someone who does pay them?
Also, have you read the latest about Syria. Seems there is concern about the WMD he has there. Gee, got to wonder if they got there from Iraq. Probably not, cause that would mean Bush and Chaney were right about the WMD, cant have that can we.

Come on beach boy, surfs not up, time to back your claims, if you can.

 
At 7:06 PM, Blogger Tom Degan said...

Please, let me handle this one from "Anonymous", JG.

You have been deceived. Everybody pays taxes. The four year old who skips down to the local candy store to buy an Almond Joy candy bar pays taxes. The tax on that Almond Joy has gone up in recent years. In fact the taxes on EVERYTHING has gone up.

Did you ever stop and wonder why cigarettes are so fucking expensive these days? When I started smoking in 1973 the cost of a pack of smokes in NY state were 45 cents a pack - 50 cents in a cigarette machine, They are now over ten bucks a pack!

Why? It's quite simple.

The class of people who have more fucking money than they know what to do with are not being taxed at the rate they used to. Hence, the burden is being borne by people like me who were stupid enough to take up the habit.

Everyone pays taxes, my friend. The 49.5% myth is the right wing's latest talking point. You have obviously swallowed the Kool-Aid. Hope it was nice 'n' tasty! Now turn off FOX Noise and deal with a little reality, huh? Forgive me but I'm embarrassed for you.

With all due respect otherwise,

Tom Degan

 
At 8:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re-read the "fucking post", it says federal income tax, not sales tax.
Why don't you turn off the Daily Koz, Ed Schultz and Rachel "is it a man or a women" Meadows and start thinking.

Here's a clip from the "fucking post" you must not have read as you tripped over your self to come to the defense of hapless JG.

“The percentage of people who do not pay federal income taxes, and who are not claimed as dependents by someone who does pay them, jumped from 14.8 percent in 1984 to 49.5 percent in 2009.”

Now maybe you can find a source to disprove this instead of blaming FOX NEWS or Right Wing Talking points? BTW the CBPP is not a Right Wing hate group, here is their link check it out for your self, or continue to believe the same crap that JG believes, and be wrong!

www.cbpp.org/

 
At 9:43 PM, Anonymous James said...

Hey Anon, the more important point about the huge increase in the numbers of people not paying taxes is that millions of Americans are much poorer than they were in the past. The country has gone downhill since 2000 and Conservative politics and policies have played a large part in our decline.

They changed the laws to encourage the off shoring of 15 million manufacturing jobs and changed the banking laws to allow the risky practices that almost caused another depression. They invented new laws to create the sub prime market and the bundling of mortgages into securities.

In 2011 Conservatives wrote 750 bills to limit or outlaw abortion but not one bill to stop us from sliding into a third world status. Where will we be in 5 years?

 
At 10:40 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

The Anonymous troll is proving once again the radical Right will offer up any misleading dishonesty in their war against democracy. The fascistic troll peddles hate along with his anti-democracy propaganda.

The radical Right cannot resist pouring out the hate they have for both democracy and for Americans who oppose one party, minority rule by the economic elites. This extremist proves he is bigot with, Rachel "is it a man or a women" Meadows, and goes on to show more of his fascist inclinations.

Note the numerous personal attacks.

1. afraid check else where cause you know the report is true.
2. don't care if the report is true cause this is what you want.
3.too lazy to check if it's the truth as it's easier to deflect or discredit the source.
4.see nothing wrong with the findings of the report, but just don't want them known.
5. hope to continue to deflect hoping the true of the post will be lost when Tom starts a new subject.
6.Wish the % of Americans who depend on the federal government for housing, food, income, student aid or other assistance was higher than 49.5%.
Since Obama said American are getting soft, maybe it's no surprise that 49% of us relies on Govt. instead of themsleves.
The 2012 election results will be decided by those who vote for a living and those who work for a living.


This is the face of American fascism. Make no mistake. These thugs hate us, and they hate democracy. And by extension, they hate America itself, if it means the filthy rich pay a measly few percent more in taxes.

This fascist wants to deny the right to vote for hard working eligible Americans. Greed uber alles!

Here’s a fact the troll doesn’t care about.

Tom is right. Most of us pay taxes.

This hateful fascist only wants to count federal income tax. Why? Since he’s obsessed with only federal income taxes, let’s ask why fewer Americans can afford to pay them.

Minimum pay McJobs have replaced good manufacturing and tech jobs because those have been off-shored by the economic elites that want to own our government and kill democracy.

Look back to 1984 and see how all that “trickle down” has worked out for us. Yeah, it didn’t. “Trickle down” is the biggest Right Wing lie since “liberal” corporate media.

Yes, the problem this Right Winger is bitching about is entirely due to the nation’s policy shift to the Right. The Right Wingers are its cause.

The working poor pay a higher percentage of their income on payroll and other taxes for living expenses, and gasoline they need to go to work, than many of the aristocratic elites pay for fortunes inherited or from dividends and stock trades.

Here are more facts the troll doesn’t care about:

http://www.policyshop.net/home/2012/2/24/dept-of-bogus-statistics-the-myth-of-the-non-taxpaying-free.html

A 2009 analysis by the Tax Policy Center reported that only 13.4 percent of tax filers paid no payroll taxes. To put this another way, 86.6 percent of Americans pay federal taxes.

The most obvious problem with this statistic, (In 2009, 151.7 million paid nothing) as many have pointed out before me, is that the narrow phrase "federal income tax" is misleading -- and, it would seem, deliberately so. Every tax analyst at Heritage well knows that federal payroll taxes, for Social Security and Medicare, now bring in nearly as much federal tax revenue as income taxes -- and also know that a great many Americans pay more in payroll taxes than income taxes.


Hey Troll, if you hate democracy and the American people so much, LEAVE. You are the problem.

 
At 10:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This months award for the best attempted deflection goes to James for trying to get us to believe that the growth in people not paying federal income tax that grew to a new high in 2009 (49%) when the Dems contolled the Senate, House and White House, is the GOP's fault in for their actions in 2011!!!
Time travel really does exist in the mind of the Koop aid drinking left. The best part about James post is in 2011, the Dems in the Senate were the ones that said to every bill sent to them by the House, The bill is DOA and didn't even allow it to be voted on. Now that's the conservatives fault I'm sure.
But the most amazing thing next will be James ignoring the fact that that
Obama broke his word made a year ago about contraception this month,and will want the discussion to be the same as Ed Schultz sprouted today on his radio show, ie it's all about women being treated badly. Then John, JG and others will claim that Obama and the current Dems are not liberals.
In the meantime, I'm still waiting to read a post from JG and John, that the figures I cited were nothing but Fox news lies.
Like I said before, this years election will be etwwen those who vote fora a living and those who work for a living. And at 49% of us paying no federal income taxes, my money's on the liberals to win..
Make you feel better, James and Tom!

 
At 10:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Dave, who's watching over your blog or better still, who's reading it anymore?

Go back to your blog, this blog is for thinking adults not threating, name calling members of the loonie left!
Disprove if you can the % of us who do not Pay Federal income taxes, if you can. Kind of shoots a hole in your position that the "rich" aren't paying enough, doesn't it!

What are you doing her, trolling for some one to threaten with pepper spray and taser guns?

 
At 10:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Dave, who's watching over your blog or better still, who's reading it anymore?

Go back to your blog, this blog is for thinking adults not threating, name calling members of the loonie left!
Disprove if you can the % of us who do not Pay Federal income taxes, if you can. Kind of shoots a hole in your position that the "rich" aren't paying enough, doesn't it!

What are you doing her, trolling for some one to threaten with pepper spray and taser guns?

 
At 10:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well Dave I guess when you say tax the rich, you dont mean income tax do you?

 
At 10:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well Dave I guess when you say tax the rich, you dont mean income tax do you?

 
At 11:05 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

DD-

Payroll taxes fund (theoretically) social insurance programs that directly benefit the payer, though the gov't has been stealing it for decades. They are a retirement account. Employers pay much of that burden as well.

Categorically not the same thing.

And quit calling people trolls how bout it. Try civility.

 
At 11:50 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Harley,
I am always civil with the civil.

Did you see the "civility" shown me before I even commented?

Are you suggesting accusations of "lazy" and "afraid" in a list of false accusations are examples of "civility"?

Taxes are taxes.

Trolls are trolls.

When someone, especially an anonymous coward, proclaims their opposition to democracy and demonstrates their bigotry, I will call them what they are.

Bush was still president in January 2009. When they blame the effects of the Bush recession in 2009 on Obama I will call them a liar.

To not do so would be dishonest.

 
At 7:04 AM, Blogger Louis Firstnorn said...

Thanks, GREAT blog!
I found you because of your comment to the Frank Rich article.
Norman Baker

 
At 7:17 AM, Blogger Tom Degan said...

Thank you for the kind words, Norman. That is a nice thing indeed to wake up to. Keep coming back - and comment whenever you please!

All the best,

Tom Degan

 
At 8:00 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Harley A., you asked of Dave Dubya...

"And quit calling people trolls how bout it. Try civility."

Harley, with all due respect, you don't know or comprehend the long history of incivility and name-calling by your conservative peer, Anonymous, on Dave's blog. As I'm sure you're aware, he goes by several monikers (as if we're fooled), such as Just the Facts!, George Jefferson's Guardian, Cornbread Jones, and several others, and his obscenity-laced and ridiculous spectacles are especially tiresome late at night after he's been drinking.

He's a troll alright, of the lowest and most loathsome variety. Please, if you would, invite him to camp out on your own blog -- and keep him there. We'd all thank you for it.

p.s. If you could intervene and ask Jesus to perform this miracle, I'd even convert (back) to Christianity. It would be the least that I could do.

 
At 9:29 AM, Anonymous John said...

>I'm still waiting to read a post from JG and John, that the figures I cited were nothing but Fox news lies.

Why would I do that? While I agree with Tom that we are ALL taxed in both obvious and hidden ways, this nation has a huge numbers of unemployed, underemployed and unemployable at or being driven into poverty. These people don't make very much money - how can they pay income tax? These poverty issues are mostly due to business and government policies. It happens through education (such as it is), the shaping of culture, the exploitative nature of the state and the economic system.

By all indications, the numbers you are siting continue to grow. This is not an accident, it is by intent. So no, I'm not going to argue your statistics.

Do you envy poor people? Do you want to live like them? You complain like they are a burden to you. Perhaps a couple million could be employed - but the other hundred million? No job, no opportunity, no hope, no escape. Whatever support poor people get from the government is nothing compared to what the ultra-wealthy cost you with their multi-trillion dollar bailouts and their perpetual wars. Not only are the rich getting the huge portion of the pie, they are the ones manipulating the system and making the policy. These people enslave you with taxes and debt.

 
At 9:30 AM, Blogger Just the Facts! said...

"Did you see the "civility" shown me before I even commented?" @ DAVE DUYBA.

That sounds a lot like John Kerry's, "I voted for it before I voted against"
or Nanny Pelosi, ""We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it".

Dave, I left your blog because you are impossible. I left because your blog was dull. I left your blog because you and JG felt you had to cover each others back. I just checked you blog, nothing has changed. Still at 166 posts, since 2/22/2012. Of the last 11 posts, 8 where either yours or JG.

Now you have followed me here. Are you stalking me or you just "trolling" the internet?

The first time your name was noted on this thread was when you posted it yourself. It is not all about you Dave. What is your problem?

 
At 11:22 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

I know someone who "left my blog" because his lies about FDR, and many other topics, were exposed.

Ran like a chickenhawk from the draft, he did. Scampered into the brush like a cultist faced with de-programming.

The lies were blatant and stupid, just like this:

The first time your name was noted on this thread was when you posted it yourself.

No shame. No honesty. No intelligence. No facts.

Just a Troll. An obsessed little troll at that.

 
At 1:17 PM, Blogger Just the Facts! said...

DAVE,

You can prove me wrong, find where your name was mentioned in this thread before your post. If I'm wrong on this, I'll say so.

Are you following me around the internet, stalking me as a troll would? I left your blog to get away from your rage, if I am so despicable, why have you followed me here?
I didn't run Dave, I just decided that your hate for anything not liberal enough or union enough was so strong in you that I would no longer waste what time I have left trying to have a civil discussion with you.
Maybe it's because of this blindness that you don't see your self duplicating what you have done in the past again.

Coming to the aid of your soul brother in politics, JG.
Calling those you hate names and then acting enraged when your called names in response.

I guess Dave, what it really boils down to, is in your work world, you get to order and bully people around. Outside your work you cannot do this without getting push back that you can not punish, like you do in your work world.

Now rage on. Being filled with hate as you are, is really sad. I feel sorry for you.

 
At 1:22 PM, Blogger Just the Facts! said...

"By all indications, the numbers you are siting continue to grow. This is not an accident, it is by intent. So no, I'm not going to argue your statistics." @ John.

Great, we have a point of reference that we can agree on. Now lets see if we can agree if this is a good thing or bad thing.
Depending our our answers, we can work on what we see is the best way to stop this statistic from growing.

I think it is a bad trend that fewer people pay federal income tax.
John, what are your thoughts?

And p.s. thanks for not being a bomb thrower, lets see if there is some common ground.

 
At 4:05 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

DD -

Yes, everyone should be civil, not just you. I guess I had just had it by the time I read your post.

 
At 8:04 PM, Anonymous James said...

Hey Anon, I am always amused how partisan Conservatives can be. You pick a statistic from 09, when the Dems had power and ignore the influence that the Repubs had in creating that statistic over the previous decade.

I did not know Republican politicians are Gods amongst men for they never do wrong!

 
At 11:44 PM, Anonymous John said...

> Depending our our answers, we can work on what we see is the best way to stop this statistic from growing.

Buy locally produced goods and products. (But then again, it might be best to pay cash as the government will just squander whatever taxes these transactions generate - which of course would not contribute to federal income taxes).

The fact of the matter is that neither you or I nor our votes have much sway over the policies in this country. This is also true for the vast majority of the people in this nation. The notion of democracy is little more than a sham...

The poor people in this country are being fed bio-engineered processed meat, grain, corn-sweetened soda... This is not a good deal. Fake food, fake opportunity, fake news, fake democracy. But isn't this the same substance they feed us? So, in the quest of common ground, I think this tastes like shit. Do you agree?

 

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